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Self defence?

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Self defence?

Postby Shootist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:09 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5171679/Catford-homeowner-stabbed-drunken-burglar-death.html

OK, I'm all in favour of self defence, especially in your own home. But.... I think his defence in court might be found wanting.

A homeowner stabbed a drunken burglar 50 times and killed him after he caught him trying to steal a TV in his living room, a court heard.
Errol Hanson, 51, knifed Mohammed Savare, 26, over 50 times in his garden after finding him clutching his TV in the early hours of 19 June.
Mr Savare, who had fallen asleep under a park bench nearby, bled to death after being stabbed 30 times in the neck alone.
Hanson, of Catford, south east London, was sweeping the street outside his house when, after waking up from his drunken slumber, Mr Savare slipped inside.
When he came back inside he found the intruder with his TV in his hands and mobile phone in his pocket.
A violent struggle ensued, which even saw the radiator fall off its hinge and Hanson fetch a knife before stabbing his victim on the patio outside, Southwark Crown Court heard.

Hanson, of Brownhill Road, Catford, denies murder, claiming he did stab him, but was 'terrified' and it was self defence.
The prosecution, however, claim his actions were 'neither necessary nor reasonable'.
Lisa Wilding QC, prosecuting said: 'In the early hours of the morning on 19 June of this year, a violent altercation took place between Mohammed Savare and this defendant Errol Hanson in the back garden of Errol Hanson's flat in Catford.
'At the end of which Mr Savare had over 50 stab wounds to his body of which 30 alone were to his neck.
'Mohammed Savare had fallen asleep nearby under a park bench close to this address having seemingly collapsed there drunk.
'He awoke and staggered down a road on which this defendant lived.
'Errol Hanson was up at that time of the morning as he is a poor sleeper.
'Whilst he was outside and unbeknownst to him, the deceased - seeing the street door open - wandered into the flat where he proceeded to set about stealing the TV that was in Mr Hanson's living room.
'Mr Hanson walked back into his flat and confronted the intruder. What happened then is known only to two men, one of whom is dead.
'This defendant says that they struggled and he managed to get the intruder into his back garden.
'He then went back into the flat and took up two knives which he took back outside with him.
'He says the defendant - who was unarmed - came at him and he stabbed him to defend himself.
'Mr Hanson says he only recalls one wound being inflicted by him.

'He went on to explain that he managed to get the intruder outside onto the patio and then returned inside and got hold of two knives before returning outside with them in his pocket at which the intruder punched him again and was being aggressive and violent.
'Mr Hanson said that he then took out one knife and stabbed the man in the throat.
'He told doctors that at the time he stabbed Mohammed Savre he was in a rage as he had never felt that angry before and he had lost control as felt mad and angry.'

The trial continues.
If you don't have to give up your car because other people commit crimes in their cars, why should I have to give up my firearms because other people commit crimes with their firearms?
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Les1066 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:16 pm

Defendant: I accidentally stabbed him 50 times, your honour. I only meant to do it once, but I enjoyed it so much the first time that I just couldn't stop myself.

Judge: OK. Not guilty.



Hmmm .... I don't think so, somehow. :hmm:
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Ray7756 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:24 pm

Up creek,,,, no paddle,,,, me thinks,,, unfortunately you are not allowed to defend you or your property in this country, having said that stabbing him 50 time is a tad excessive
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Coldfinger » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:30 pm

Reasonable force? Ye Gods! :shock:
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With my luck. if there was an award for most pessimistic man in the UK Id never get nominated....
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Shootist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:13 pm

Stab someone 50 times and you'll be in less trouble, usually, than if you shot him once.
If you don't have to give up your car because other people commit crimes in their cars, why should I have to give up my firearms because other people commit crimes with their firearms?
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Coldfinger » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:33 pm

Shootist wrote:Stab someone 50 times and you'll be in less trouble, usually, than if you shot him once.


Fair enough, at least he wasn't a danger to the public
"Bit of a Meldrew you, int'cha?" Linegeist

With my luck. if there was an award for most pessimistic man in the UK Id never get nominated....
wants sbs to lubricate his finger
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Deallad » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:01 am

he only stabbed vermin so I don't see what the problem is
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Ray7756 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:25 am

Deallad wrote:he only stabbed vermin so I don't see what the problem is


Unfortunately that is not the way the courts will see it, all the thieving scroats have more rights than the normal honest person :bh: :bh: :bh:
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Shootist » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:41 am

I believe it to be true that the laws on the use of force and self defence in the UK are probably among the best and fairest in the world. The problem lies in the fact, as I believe it to be, that the police don't agree, whether through stupidity or fear of them being done out of a job I don't know. The killer in this case was doing fine until he returned to his house, having successfully ejected the intruder, picked up two knives and went back to sort out the intruder. Had the intruder been stabbed fifty times while inside the house there would be a good chance that a Not Guilty verdict could be returned by the jury, possibly on the instructions of the judge. That and assuming the killer had the good sense to keep his mouth firmly shut until he had a lawyer. It's a sad fact that most people who speak to the police without a lawyer present will bury themselves in the first few sentences.

In this instance I am of the opinion that it's a 'win-win' for the country. A criminal has moved permanently away from life, and the dozy sod who sent him away is almost certain to get a very long government sponsored holiday. His one last hope for freedom is to claim that he is a transgender female and it was the wrong week.
If you don't have to give up your car because other people commit crimes in their cars, why should I have to give up my firearms because other people commit crimes with their firearms?
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Ray7756 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Shootist wrote:I believe it to be true that the laws on the use of force and self defence in the UK are probably among the best and fairest in the world. The problem lies in the fact, as I believe it to be, that the police don't agree, whether through stupidity or fear of them being done out of a job I don't know. The killer in this case was doing fine until he returned to his house, having successfully ejected the intruder, picked up two knives and went back to sort out the intruder. Had the intruder been stabbed fifty times while inside the house there would be a good chance that a Not Guilty verdict could be returned by the jury, possibly on the instructions of the judge. That and assuming the killer had the good sense to keep his mouth firmly shut until he had a lawyer. It's a sad fact that most people who speak to the police without a lawyer present will bury themselves in the first few sentences.

In this instance I am of the opinion that it's a 'win-win' for the country. A criminal has moved permanently away from life, and the dozy sod who sent him away is almost certain to get a very long government sponsored holiday. His one last hope for freedom is to claim that he is a transgender female and it was the wrong week.


And if he says he is converting to islam he can claim damages as well :Facepalm: as the christians have given him grief
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Re: Self defence?

Postby Cam » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:01 pm

Ray7756 wrote:Up creek,,,, no paddle,,,, me thinks,,, unfortunately you are not allowed to defend you or your property in this country, having said that stabbing him 50 time is a tad excessive
Cheers
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Your are quite right: I imagine that he dulled his knife
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