Electric bore cleaning

[Shootist]

I've been reading up on this for some time and decided to give it a go. It's an expensive business so here's the bits you need. A mild steel rod, 2 or 3mm diameter and long enough to poke out of your barrel a few inches. Two 1.5 volt batteries, Some wire, some heat shrink, some domestic ammonia.

Here's the site I got it from.

http://zoneballistic.com/colinsballistics/borecleaner.html

The rifle I decided to try it on a very well used .308 rifle that had already been scrubbed to within an inch of it's life so I wasn't expecting too much. After an hour run time I emptied the barrel out. The ammonia had turned bright blue and there was a bit of sludge mixed in. There was also some black/brown deposit on the rod which looked a bit gruesome. As I said, I wasn't expecting too much from this rifle as it had been well scrubbed, but there was more than I thought. The main benefit in this instance seemed to be removal of copper, but my main hope is removing lead. Any suggestions for a different, better, electrolyte than ammonia for lead would be welcome.

The next step is to shoot it and see if there is any improvement. Then I have one or two suspects to try it out when I can build something a little less Heath-Robinson.

[flintlok]

Ammonia solution is necessary in order to keep the copper in solution. It chemically complexes with the copper in solution and makes it unavailable to plate out on steel. Copper in solution without ammonia will electrolytically plate out out on steel automatically and place iron in solution. It important to make sure the electrode doesn't touch the steel on the barrel otherwise it may corrode barrel steel at the contact point. It's important to clean the bore with hot water otherwise ammonia salts may find their way into the grain structure of the metal and cause the barrel to rust. I always use a dilute ammonia solution to clean my black powder guns. Ammonia doesn't hurt the metal however it will easily eat the finish off of stock and degrease the metal components of the rifle.

[Shootist]

Thanks for that, great info. I always feel a bit happier when I have some rough idea of what I'm doing. Have you any thoughts on the best electrolyte for removing lead? That's my main target.

[Keef]

Electric bore cleaning?

I thought that was putting a rod with a brush on it in an electric drill!

That's how I had to clean my 12 bore slug gun to get the lead out! Samed thing trying to delead the revolver chambers.

[Shootist]

Electric bore cleaning?

I thought that was putting a rod with a brush on it in an electric drill!

That's how I had to clean my 12 bore slug gun to get the lead out! Samed thing trying to delead the revolver chambers.

But didn't your 12 bore start out as a 16 bore?

[Deallad]

Looks interesting but think ill stick with a good dose of KG12 with nylon mop and brush

Though I am always looking for the best way to clean my rifles, the VFG cleaning felts seem to do a good job on the 22's so may order them in 30 for the win mag

Mike

[Shootist]

As a cleaning regime I suspect it is best used on older, very well used, rifles where the alternative is a week spent scrubbing out until you have worn out several brushes. By all accounts the effect on old military rifles can be spectacularly successful.

Edit:
Homebase sell a cheap(ish) supply of household ammonia.

[Shootist]

Stolen from the internet.

Recipes

Cop Out Solution

in 500 ml DI water in 1 Quart of DI water
27.9 grains of Copper (II) Acetate @ 27.8 cents 58.96 grains of Copper (II) Acetate
297.0 grains of Ammonium Acetate @ 22.9 cents 627.68 grains of Ammonium Acetate
Total chemical cost w/o DI water = $0.507 per bottle Total chemical cost w/o DI water = $1.07

An aqueous electrolyte of 0.5 molar ammonium acetate has been found to be particularly well suited because ammonium acetate promotes the solubilization of copper ions. The addition of not more than 0.02 molar copper(II) acetate (3.62 grams/liter) is suitable and will not promote any adverse reaction with the ferrous metal of the bore.



Lead Out Solution


in 500-ml DI water in 1 Quart of DI water
50.15 grains of Lead (II) Acetate @ 12.5 cents 105.98 grains of Lead (II) Acetate
297.0 grains of Ammonium Acetate @ 27.8 cents 627.68 grains of Ammonium Acetate
Total chemical cost w/o DI water = $0.403 per bottle Total chemical cost w/o DI water = $0.85

An aqueous electrochemical cleaning solution consisting of 0.5 moles/liter (38.5 grams/liter) ammonium acetate and 0.02 moles/liter (6.5 grams/liter) lead(II) acetate. Since metallic lead is by far the predominant constitutent of lead fouling deposited in the bore, the minor amounts of alloying metals such as antimony and tin, as well as other usual non-metallic fouling deposits, if not oxidized themselves, simply loosen or fall off as the layer of lead fouling is removed.

Purchased 2/26/01 @ $157.49 less shipping

Ammonium Acetate 10 Kilo Grams @ $0.011897 per Gram or 154320 grains $0.0007709 per grain
Copper Acetate 100 Grams @ $0.1542 per Gram or 1543.2 grains $0.0099922 per grain
Lead Acetate 500 Grams @ $0.0462 per Gram or 7716 grains $0.0024948 per grain

Will make 55 ea. 500 ml Cop Out base solution
Will make 153 ea. 500 ml Lead Out base solution
will make 519 ea. 500 ml Ammonium Acetate base solution
Conversion

500 ml = 16.9 oz

Grams x 15.432 = grains
Liters x 1.0567 = Quarts
Liters x 33.81402 = Ounces


Copper or copper alloy fouling, the latter occurring primarily through the use of so-called jacketed bullets, is removed in a manner similar to lead. Thus, an aqueous electrolyte of 0.5 molar ammonium acetate has been found to be particularly well suited because ammonium acetate promotes the solubilization of copper ions. If a potentiostat is not used, the aqueous electrolyte is preferentially doped with copper ions supplied by dissolving therein a suitable copper salt, such as copper(II) acetate. However, because copper ions in solution react spontaneously with iron in a direct replacement reaction, it has been found that only very low concentrations of copper ions can be tolerated. The addition of not more than 0.02 molar copper(II) acetate (3.62 grams/liter) is suitable and will not promote any adverse reaction with the ferrous metal of the bore. The acetate salt of copper also appears to have the beneficial effect of lowering the spontaneous reactivity of copper with iron. Similarly as in the case of lead alloy fouling, the alloying metals typically used with copper, such as zinc, are either dissolved and codeposited on the auxiliary electrode with the copper or loosened and fall into the aqueous electrolyte.

To electrochemically remove lead fouling, an aqueous solution of 0.5 molar ammonium acetate (38.5 grams/liter) is a preferred electrolyte. Ammonium acetate has no direct chemical or electrolytic effect on steel, but provides the electrolytic conductivity necessary for the electrochemical oxidation of the metallic fouling, and acts to enhance the dissolution of the oxidized lead. If a potentiostat is not used, the electrolyte is further preferentially doped with lead ions to establish in the electrolytic solution an equilibrium electrolytic condition which promotes uniform and continuous deposition of lead on the auxiliary electrode. Doping with lead ions also eliminates the need to monitor and adjust the potential and to maintain the lead ion concentration in the electrolyte. Most conveniently, the electrolytic solution may be doped with approximately 0.02 molar lead(II) acetate (6.50 grams/liter) which is compatible with the base electrolyte and innocuous to the steel bore. It should be noted that an aqueous solution of lead acetate alone may also be effectively used. However, as previously mentioned, ammonium acetate in the electrolyte enhances the dissolution of the electrochemically oxidized lead fouling. In addition, lead acetate is not very soluble in water, but is substantially more soluble in aqueous ammonium acetate.

Since metallic lead is by far the predominant constituent of lead fouling deposited in the bore, the minor amounts of alloying metals such as antimony and tin, as well as other usual non-metallic fouling deposits, if not oxidized themselves, simply loosen or fall off as the layer of lead fouling is removed. To the extent that these minor components of the fouling layer are not actually dissolved in the electrolyte, they are conveniently swept away with the electrolyte when the bore is emptied or may be swabbed from the bore in the conventional manner after the electrolyte is removed.


The method disclosed herein is effectively operated at very low d-c potential. Thus, potentials in the range of 0.15 to 0.30 volts have been found to be adequate and it is believed that, for all usual metal fouling layers, a potential in excess of 2 volts would not be needed. In all cases, the current density is effectively controlled by the amount of metal fouling on the bore surface and remains at a low level. The practice of the method, therefore, does not expose the user to any electrical hazard. Furthermore, the method may be carried out at room temperature, thereby obviating the potential hazard of handling high temperature liquids. The electrolytes do not evolve toxic vapors and can, therefore, be safely used indoors with normal ventilation.

[Shootist]

Being interested in taking this process further, I thought I'd have a look around to acquire the necessary chemicals. My first thought was that I need to ensure that I'm not breaking some law or other from H&S or the Alchemy Act or somesuch. Can I find the answer to that? Not a bloody chance. Enquire on government websites, HMRC, UK Border Agency and the like, and you are assaulted with every single piece of legislation, guidance, and policies that were ever written in Britain. I swear there were laws on the correct composition of woad.

A ten minute conversation with a UK firm confirmed two things. 1, they only dealt with quantities normally delivered in medium sized tankers, and 2, that they were incapable of understanding that I didn't want a small tanker load of the bloody stuff! There are a couple of companies in Poland that appear willing to supply in the small quantities I want at a price that is acceptable but I need to make sure that I do not cause unrest in any government department before I make an order. Anyone got any (good) ideas? The chemicals are as follows:-

1. Ammonium Acetate

2. Lead (II) Acetate

3. Copper (II) Acetate

[flintlok]

Try searching in laboratories supplies. They'll sell reagent grade chemicals in small quantities. However lead solution disposal typically is highly regulated. It will cost more to get rid of the stuff than what you paid to buy it. Alternately you could alway give the spent lead solution to SidebySide just for the entertainment factor.

[gun nut]

At Flintsy said, try searching for laboratory supplies. I used to use Scientific Laboratory Supplies to buy small quantities of mercury salts for hot water blueing.