Moving from .223 to High Calibre Issues

[Ahdil786]

Question more around rifle control,

I'm a good shot, comfortable at 600 to 1000 yards.

But i shoot best with a .223 (at 200 to 300 yards)

As soon as i move to a larger calibre. no matter what the distance, shots seem to move to ocasionally wild at 11 oclock or 1 oclock.
I'm pretty sure its recoil control.

I'm 6"6 and usually fire prone off a high rest (over a foot high). with my left hand supporting the butt under my shoulder. This is the most comfortable position.
Unsure if i should start placing my hand over the barrel and push down.

any suggestions ?

[gun nut]

You should be relaxed shooting and pushing down on the barrel is unlikely to be consistent. A lot of people develop the odd flinch when moving up to a large calibre.
I would get someone experienced to watch you shoot and/or load random numbers of rounds in the gun to see if you are flinching before trying anything else.
Oh and welcome aboard!

[Shootist]

I would suggest lowering the front rest and supporting the fore end of the rifle with your left hand (assuming you are right handed) which is rested on the front rest you are using. Not necessarily the most accurate hold, but it can help reducing any flinch present. Also, it may be possible that rather than flinching you are tensing up in preparation to fire which may alter your hold and hence the point of impact.

[shotgun sam]

If you reload try reducing how much powder you use thus less recoil and all you have to do is re zero your rifle at a certain distance and either dial in your other distances or if like me you are a hunter then mentally adjust for each distance.

Sam

[Bushdog]

Ahdil, you say you are comfortable out to 1000yds. I assume you are talking about using a different calibre than .223 from 600-1000? (.223 is not an easy 1000 yd cartridge no matter what anyone says).

You need to get your bipod as low as you can comfortably get onto the target, and hold the gun the same way as before - don't try and hold the barrel down -how can this ever be consistent? Make sure you have a good and consistent cheek weld on the stock with your eye in front of the scope.

Hold the rifle in the same grip as the light rifle, and squeeeeeze the trigger each time so that it surprises you when it goes off. Stop worrying about the recoil - it will not do you any damage. Just make sure your body is offering the same resistance to it every time - doesn't matter if the barrel rises an inch or a yard, providing it does the same every time. Practice with a .22rf in the same position, if you can - its surprising how just getting used to it will help.

If you find you cannot accommodate the blast and recoil, think seriously about sticking with the .223 and concentrating on shorter range competitions.

[Shootist]

Or try 6.5x55?

[URX]

Is your larger calibre rifle moderated or muzzle braked? If not its worth trying that to reduce the felt recoil.
Flinch sounds like the mostlikely culprit as your are anticipating thr thump
It can also help to use a lighter bullet and downloaded till you regain confidence in your grouping.....

[Ahdil786]

I think you might be right on the flinching,

1000's yards, usually loan an RPA from the armory, with a heavy barrel, .308. Never amazing, as im rubbish at reading wind, but always on paper.
and comfortable at 600 yards using an RPA .308 target rifle. So didnt think it was recoil.

I noticed this more on my last visit, at 200 yards, straightpull AR.223 and howa 1500, .308 , i thought it was because the barrel was lighter. But now that i think of it, the gun was lighter and had a kick. Shoulder was getting sore.
It was just visibly noticeable, that i could v-bull using the .223, at 200/300 yards. but the .308 just couldnt get any thing close to a grouping, and the extreme 11 / 1 oclock fliers really put me off going back to 1000's yards.

I'm gonna have to get the boys to watch, / tempted to try and record myself at a high framerate. See if they can see a flinch/brace in slow motion. and see if i can take out both the howa and the RPA out at the same time. Didnt think of it before, but it maybe the lighter .308 causing more recoil, and me flinching.

Thank you guys.

[Ahdil786]

Ahdil, you say you are comfortable out to 1000yds. I assume you are talking about using a different calibre than .223 from 600-1000? (.223 is not an easy 1000 yd cartridge no matter what anyone says).

You need to get your bipod as low as you can comfortably get onto the target, and hold the gun the same way as before - don't try and hold the barrel down -how can this ever be consistent? Make sure you have a good and consistent cheek weld on the stock with your eye in front of the scope.

Hold the rifle in the same grip as the light rifle, and squeeeeeze the trigger each time so that it surprises you when it goes off. Stop worrying about the recoil - it will not do you any damage. Just make sure your body is offering the same resistance to it every time - doesn't matter if the barrel rises an inch or a yard, providing it does the same every time. Practice with a .22rf in the same position, if you can - its surprising how just getting used to it will help.

If you find you cannot accommodate the blast and recoil, think seriously about sticking with the .223 and concentrating on shorter range competitions.

Yeah i thought maybe my issue, i was firing .308 like i do the .223. Too relaxed, front fully supported by a bipod or rest, left hand supporting the butt in my shoulder firmly, leaving my right hand to operate the trigger smoothly,
Its the steadiest position i feel most comfortable in. and works well with .22lr /.223.
I was thinking i wasnt firm enough with .308, may need to hold tighter to control the recoil.
Gone through it methodically, and pretty sure now that its more light overall weight high caliber im struggling with recoil / flinching sounds like a good place to monitor.
I can recall using a .303 once at 300 yards, horribly light and kicked like a mule. i held it extremely tight in my shoulder, , but shot good groupings

I'm loaning the .308's from the armory, as i havent found anything i love yet in my price range. (accuracy international / RPA are amazing, but well beyond what i can afford.)

[Bushdog]

It certainly sounds like the lightweight Howa is giving you a flinch. Also bear in mind the light gun may just not shoot as well as the RPA.
Depending on what disciplines you are shooting/intending to shoot (which may stipulate which calibre you are allowed to use) I would look at other cartridges. If not restricted to .308, I would also seriously consider one of the lighter, ballistically superior calibres, as suggested by shootist such as the various 6.5mms - 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmoor, etc. They are much softer shooting, but extend the shootable range considerably (and behave better in the wind at all distances).

I am not down on the .308 at all (I have 2), but for general longer range target shooting, and certainly beyond 800 or so, it is possibly not the best choice for someone who is a bit sensitive to recoil (and we all are to some degree).

Certainly hold the rifle tight, but don't try and fight the recoil, just concentrate on a good position and gentle squeeze of the trigger so that you avoid anticipating the shot. If you have a removable magazine rifle and a friend there to help, get them to load the magazine for you with 4 live rounds and a randomly-placed dummy round (not first or last). You will soon be able to tell if you are flinching when you try and fire the dummy round.

[Keef]

If you want to shoot at 1000 yards with relatively mild recoil try a 6mmXC.

Good for all ranges and with the 115gr bullet will shoot comfortably at 1000 yards plus it will feed from a magazine if the comp you're shooting requires it.

[Ahdil786]

Thank you guys, i dont know why i was stuck in a single mind set of 1000 yards. only a .308 will do. Think i just got so used to the standard RPA bisley give as loaners.

Gonna try the dummy round trick. and take it down a notch, see what the armory can recommend at the 6mm / lighter load side of things.

[Bushdog]

To be honest a .308 is not a great choice for 1000 yard shooting. The bullets have to be driven quite hard to stay supersonic at that distance, and even if they do, wind has greater effect than the 6mm and 6.5mms with much better ballistic properties.

In a loan gun, I suspect the cost of ammo for the smaller calibres will make you weep, if they are available at all. They are excellent propositions in your own gun if you plan to reload, though.

But as I said previously, some disciplines have calibre restrictions, meaning you can only compete using specified calibres (often .308) - so you need to bear that in mind too, when thinking about what your longer range gun will be.

[Cam]

Flinching is a difficult action to control because it's a mind game..

I practise with a spring powered air rifle and, IMO, it forces me to control trigger release.

Oh, and if want to really want master how counter the effect of recoil on the mind, ask shootist for a go of his SOAB Springfield 30-60!

[Shootist]

Or perhaps my .577 artillery carbine on full load, or my Marlin 45/50 fully stoked, or the Bergara .308 break barrel which is downright violent without it's moderator. I seem to have developed a liking for brisk firearms. To be fair to the Bergara, it's not so much the recoil as after firing you have no idea where it will end up pointing.