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Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

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Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby Chelseablue » Sat May 16, 2009 7:03 pm

Sorry to be so boring but iv heard and been told so much crap lately on shooting fox i am beging to loose the plot .
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby Judge Ali » Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm

As far as I am aware:

No closed season.

No limit or size restrictions.

You can shoot them anywhere you have legal permission to shoot providing it does not conflict with any other UK shooting law - i.e. you are not too close to a public road, etc.

No specific calibre required under the current UK law but you obviously need to use something suitable on humane grounds and out of respect - the .17hmr debate continues..... Lots of people use .22lr as this is the most common rimfire out there. I personally am getting a .223 specifically as my fox rifle.

You can also use shotguns - again nothing specific according to the law but you obviously need something suitable, I wouldnt shoot one with my .410 and use 34gm BB's in my 12g Berretta for foxes which has always resulted in instant kills.

It is illegal to use an air rifle to shoot foxes.

They are legally classified as vermin and as such are on the DEFRA vermin list.

Ummm......... I am sure someone else will have something to add but I think thats about it!
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby re'M'ington » Sat May 16, 2009 11:35 pm

They may be classed as vermin by DEFRA,but,as far as the police are concerned they have to be added to your FAC for the specific calibre,and,a lot of forces won't add them to .22lr.I too have a Fox specific rifle,a .204cal,but,have dropped a lot of foxes with the rimfire with only one runner in a lot of years.
Just out of interest what sort of misinformation do you think you have been given...........'M'
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby jeff » Sun May 17, 2009 1:16 am

Alex Gibbs wrote:No specific calibre required under the current UK law but you obviously need to use something suitable on humane grounds and out of respect - the .17hmr debate continues..... Lots of people use .22lr as this is the most common rimfire out there. I personally am getting a .223 specifically as my fox rifle.


You must have fox (Or vermin in those regions where the police classify fox in with vermin) specifically listed as a condition on your FAC though, and that will specify the calibres you may use.
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby rogerhoad » Sun May 17, 2009 9:56 am

This topic seems to be interpreted differently by every police force/FEO in the country. Our force class foxes in with vermin.
What they won't do is issue a certificate for rim fires if you state that the reason for wanting the rifle is to control foxes (Home Office guideline).
However if you have a ticket stating vermin and a fox appears whilst you are using a rimfire, no problem in shooting it.
An acqaintence of mine did however get into a spot of bother a few years ago, he had been stalking one morning with his .243 and on the way back to his vehicle up pops Charlie so he shot it ,on arrival back at the car there is Mr Plod who ask to see his certificate on which he also has .222 for vermin the .243 states for deer only.
He actually received an official warning over this. So it can work in reverse. I think that one of the biggest problems is with forces who read the Home Office guidelines and then try to say that they are the law. They are not!!!
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby Judge Ali » Sun May 17, 2009 11:02 am

jeff wrote:
Alex Gibbs wrote:No specific calibre required under the current UK law but you obviously need to use something suitable on humane grounds and out of respect - the .17hmr debate continues..... Lots of people use .22lr as this is the most common rimfire out there. I personally am getting a .223 specifically as my fox rifle.


You must have fox (Or vermin in those regions where the police classify fox in with vermin) specifically listed as a condition on your FAC though, and that will specify the calibres you may use.


Interesting - my FEO just stated I could use the .17hmr or .22lr for foxes very casually when we were walking around a permission. No mention of it on my ticket though.

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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby varminter » Sun May 17, 2009 11:08 am

re'M'ington wrote:They may be classed as vermin by DEFRA,but,as far as the police are concerned they have to be added to your FAC for the specific calibre..........

Eh? Only if you suffer from one of those exceptionally bossy, interfering, anally-obsessive police forces surely. WTF should anyone faff around distinguishing one kind of vermin from another? The word "fox" doesn't appear on my FAC, just "vermin", which is how it should be - though personally I'd prefer it if the police devoted all their resources to catching criminals, rather than obsessing about what sort of gun somebody uses to shoot what creature. E.g rogerhoad's story:
An acqaintence of mine ... had been stalking one morning with his .243 and on the way back to his vehicle up pops Charlie so he shot it ,on arrival back at the car there is Mr Plod who ask to see his certificate on which he also has .222 for vermin the .243 states for deer only.
He actually received an official warning over this.

Good grief! And the plods wonder why their public standing has declined so dramatically! This is like something out of Kafka. Truly, madly, deeply batty and infuriating. Rogerhoad: how on earth did a plod come to be sneaking around the countryside observing your friend shoot a fox, and how did he know he'd used a .243 to do so? Have your coppers nothing better to do? Did your friend make this point (politely) to his Chief Constable, copied perhaps to the District Auditor with a note re the (mis)application of public funds?
With the upcoming Euro elections, I wonder how many here are writing to their various MEP candidates to ascertain their views on this sort of bloody stupid waste of time, and on firearms legislation in general: the only way these people will realise the depth of voters' dislike of stupid legislation is if they are told about it directly. Same applies to MPs, and we might well think that given their present decline in public esteem they might be a little more polite to constituents, a little more eager to please - and we'll have a General Election within the year. I'm curious to see whether my own MP is a little more malleable than previously, after a 1/4-page feature on him in yesterday's Telegraph about the expenses claimed to maintain his rather nice country house...
Regards, Malcolm
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby rogerhoad » Sun May 17, 2009 11:49 am

varminter wrote:
re'M'ington wrote:They may be classed as vermin by DEFRA,but,as far as the police are concerned they have to be added to your FAC for the specific calibre..........

Eh? Only if you suffer from one of those exceptionally bossy, interfering, anally-obsessive police forces surely. WTF should anyone faff around distinguishing one kind of vermin from another? The word "fox" doesn't appear on my FAC, just "vermin", which is how it should be - though personally I'd prefer it if the police devoted all their resources to catching criminals, rather than obsessing about what sort of gun somebody uses to shoot what creature. E.g rogerhoad's story:
An acqaintence of mine ... had been stalking one morning with his .243 and on the way back to his vehicle up pops Charlie so he shot it ,on arrival back at the car there is Mr Plod who ask to see his certificate on which he also has .222 for vermin the .243 states for deer only.
He actually received an official warning over this.

Good grief! And the plods wonder why their public standing has declined so dramatically! This is like something out of Kafka. Truly, madly, deeply batty and infuriating. Rogerhoad: how on earth did a plod come to be sneaking around the countryside observing your friend shoot a fox, and how did he know he'd used a .243 to do so? Have your coppers nothing better to do? Did your friend make this point (politely) to his Chief Constable, copied perhaps to the District Auditor with a note re the (mis)application of public funds?
With the upcoming Euro elections, I wonder how many here are writing to their various MEP candidates to ascertain their views on this sort of bloody stupid waste of time, and on firearms legislation in general: the only way these people will realise the depth of voters' dislike of stupid legislation is if they are told about it directly. Same applies to MPs, and we might well think that given their present decline in public esteem they might be a little more polite to constituents, a little more eager to please - and we'll have a General Election within the year. I'm curious to see whether my own MP is a little more malleable than previously, after a 1/4-page feature on him in yesterday's Telegraph about the expenses claimed to maintain his rather nice country house...
Regards, Malcolm

Hi Malcolm,
Believe it or not this happened over ten years ago .He still had the fox with him as he needed to dispose of it elsewhere, unfortunately he did not have his .222 or he could have blagged it.
I will post another incident with Kent Police in a minute, you'll love it ,won't put it on this one as it's getting a bit long.

regards

Roger
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby rogerhoad » Sun May 17, 2009 12:12 pm

My Son had been shooting and called on a friend on his way home. He had a Subaru pick up and hid his guns behind the seat out of view. Also in the vehicle were his Jack Russel Terrier and Springer Spaniel, the Springer was especially protective of his environment and would have been extremely aggressive had any body gone near the vehicle and would have attacked any body trying to access it.

A neighbour called the Police as he saw the dogs in the vehicle, it wasn't a problem as it was evening time and the front quarterlight window was open for air.

The Police who came out realised that the vehicle may have contained firearms so tried to enter it with the expected result.

They then called out a dog handling team to subdue the dogs so that they could enter the vehicle to remove the guns.

They charged my son with not keeping his weapons properly secure (would you have put your hand in there?).
I contacted BASC who advised a guilty plea as they thought that with a smart prosecutor they would get a conviction.
During the time that he was being interviewed he repeatedly had to request that the officer stopped pointing his shotgun at him.

Any way it went to court,apparently the Police didn't even get the details right, even down to giving the court incorrect gun numbers. The magistrate gave the Police a ticking off for wasting the courts time and as good as told my son that if he had pleaded not guilty he would have got off.
He was fined £50 + costs. Which says it all really.

When he eventually collected his guns the scope on his .22 had been damaged whilst in Police custody so they had to replace that.

How much did that fiasco coat the tax payer.

The sad thing about it all was that the guy who phoned the Police in the first place knew where my son was and only had to tell the Police , so none of this needed to happen.
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby varminter » Sun May 17, 2009 12:26 pm

Roger, sad story, sounds like the usual procedural bollocks - the police claim all the time that they have to go to these absurd lengths where firearms are suspected or known to be involved, but they are just declining to use their commonsense and initiative. It's difficult to avoid believing they enjoy the chance to play around with the heavy mob and get all serious about something that is trivial and which does not involve any threat to public safety - and it gives them another "firearms incident" to log into their records, helps their budgetary claims for more officers, weapons training, helicopters....
Regards, Malcolm
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby jeff » Sun May 17, 2009 2:36 pm

varminter wrote:Eh? Only if you suffer from one of those exceptionally bossy, interfering, anally-obsessive police forces surely. WTF should anyone faff around distinguishing one kind of vermin from another? The word "fox" doesn't appear on my FAC, just "vermin", which is how it should be - though personally I'd prefer it if the police devoted all their resources to catching criminals, rather than obsessing about what sort of gun somebody uses to shoot what creature. E.g rogerhoad's story:


My old UK police area of Cleveland is a case in point. Fox is very specifically given, and vermin is a seperate condition. My .223 had Fox, Vermin and Roe in Scotland, my .243 had Deer and Fox, and my 7mm had Deer and Fox only whilst out stalking deer. Fox was not granted for rimfires at all.

Good grief! And the plods wonder why their public standing has declined so dramatically! This is like something out of Kafka. Truly, madly, deeply batty and infuriating. Rogerhoad: how on earth did a plod come to be sneaking around the countryside observing your friend shoot a fox, and how did he know he'd used a .243 to do so? Have your coppers nothing better to do? Did your friend make this point (politely) to his Chief Constable, copied perhaps to the District Auditor with a note re the (mis)application of public funds?


I think most FAC conditions and police enforcemenrt of them come from the fact most Chief Constables don't want the public having guns. They also don't appear to give a toss about the low regard in which the public hold them as an organisation. In the case above, I think making the point to the Chief Constable - i.e. admitting to not complying with his conditions - would have given them reason to revoke the FAC. The time to have the argument about silly conditions is once it's been granted and before ignoring them! :grin:
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby Keef » Sun May 17, 2009 7:50 pm

Part of the problem is not being able to appeal against the decision by the police as to what conditions they put on your FAC.

If you could go to court to appeal then there would be precidents set that all forces would have to comply with, unfortunately we can't so we're stuck with whatever the police write on the FAC.
by Sidebyside » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:37 pm Damn it Keef , I have to agree with you your jokes are good
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby Duncan » Sun May 17, 2009 8:49 pm

I use my .17 cz for fox's Have had a good shot from around 160-200 yrds, on a good day, with good humidity. On saying that even if it was windy i would still take the shot, as long as you know the corrections, which i have seen people with .223 totaly miss from 100yrds " retards" Note (people) as i see them shot on the same land but have nothing todo with them as they couldnt hit a barn door with a shotgun, let alowne a Rifle, but thats another story ;)

The only question is though " HOW DO THEY GET A FAC " shouldnt they or we even have to prove that we can shoot safely????
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby re'M'ington » Mon May 18, 2009 12:02 am

They charged my son with not keeping his weapons properly secure (would you have put your hand in there?).
I contacted BASC who advised a guilty plea as they thought that with a smart prosecutor they would get a conviction.
During the time that he was being interviewed he repeatedly had to request that the officer stopped pointing his shotgun at him.


TYPICAL!!!!!
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Re: Foxes , sorry for opening the can of worms but

Postby Chelseablue » Mon May 18, 2009 12:20 am

It say's my FAC is for vermin control , there is no mention of the type of rifle needed for fox or no mention of fox just vermin . Some know it alls have told me i cant shoot fox with my .22 rim fire or my 17 hmr but cant find it written anywhere . I did get a visit from the armed police because the next door farmer didnt like the sound of my 17HMR . But that turned out to be more about a land bountry dispute than what i was doing , but to be on the safe side i wanted to use the .22 rimfire to shoot fox . My mate who owned the rifle before me dropped many a fox with it . but thanksagain for the advise .

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