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Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby varminter » Mon May 18, 2009 8:44 am

jeff wrote:I think most FAC conditions and police enforcemenrt of them come from the fact most Chief Constables don't want the public having guns. They also don't appear to give a toss about the low regard in which the public hold them as an organisation. In the case above, I think making the point to the Chief Constable - i.e. admitting to not complying with his conditions - would have given them reason to revoke the FAC. The time to have the argument about silly conditions is once it's been granted and before ignoring them! :grin:

I'm sure you're right about Chief Constables, or indeed ACPO in general. I dare say you're also right about the risk to one's FAC, though I still think crap policing needs to be publicised and commented on,
Regards, Malcolm
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Re: Foxes , sorry for opening the can of worms but

Postby rogerhoad » Mon May 18, 2009 9:07 am

Chelseablue wrote:It say's my FAC is for vermin control , there is no mention of the type of rifle needed for fox or no mention of fox just vermin . Some know it alls have told me i cant shoot fox with my .22 rim fire or my 17 hmr but cant find it written anywhere . I did get a visit from the armed police because the next door farmer didnt like the sound of my 17HMR . But that turned out to be more about a land bountry dispute than what i was doing , but to be on the safe side i wanted to use the .22 rimfire to shoot fox . My mate who owned the rifle before me dropped many a fox with it . but thanksagain for the advise .

Brian


Don't apologise for opening this can of worms. I think that this is just the sort of topic that needs to be on the forum so that everybody has the opportunity to relate their personal experiences and to highlight the lack of uniformity.

There is only ONE law plus the Home Office GUIDELINES, it's amazing how many interpretations there are to one piece of legislation, it's a bit scary really.

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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby The Burpster » Mon May 18, 2009 9:49 am

varminter wrote:
jeff wrote: I dare say you're also right about the risk to one's FAC, though I still think crap policing needs to be publicised and commented on,
Regards, Malcolm


I'm intregued to know what line of work you are in Malcolm. I'm certain that whatever profession you're in is not beyond reproach and has people within it that make mistakes........
Every day you wake up is a good day!

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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby varminter » Mon May 18, 2009 11:40 am

The Burpster wrote:I'm intregued to know what line of work you are in Malcolm. I'm certain that whatever profession you're in is not beyond reproach and has people within it that make mistakes........

Oh no, you're taking it personally again! Burpster, whatever line of work I'm in, the point is it does not impinge on others' lives - and more important, their liberty - to anything like the same degree as policing. I am far from being a lone eccentric in the wilderness crying out against the decline of policing in this country, its increasingly bureaucratic & authoritarian style, and in particular the arbitrary and often oppressive way our firearms laws are implemented. A great many people have expressed huge concern about these things over a very long period. I'm glad to see frquent mentions here about good service from this or that Force or officer, but it's the overall picture that's worrying.
Regards, Malcolm
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby The Burpster » Mon May 18, 2009 4:21 pm

I'm not taking it personally at all this time.....

You have avoided answering my question.

You CONTINUALLY use odd single examples thrown up on here as evidence of a Galactic conspiracy by the Police to stop you shooting. You take every opportunity to hi-jack a thread to launch into your tirade against the Police. You also use these (lets face it rhetorical) examples to further your argument of bitterness against the Police, whilst using this to rally others into your way of thinking.

Of the 1000s of daily interactions between shooters and their local Police (be that in perosn or for certifcate processing) there is bound to be some go wrong, this is usually caused by miss-understanding or error on one of the parties involved.
To err is human.
Are you suggesting that Police services should be beyond making mistakes? Please tell me how that is possible.

Again I re-itterate that most Firearms Departments have no people of the office of Constable working in them.

When you state, as you do ........
"the police claim all the time that they have to go to these absurd lengths where firearms are suspected or known to be involved, but they are just declining to use their commonsense and initiative. It's difficult to avoid believing they enjoy the chance to play around with the heavy mob and get all serious about something that is trivial and which does not involve any threat to public safety - and it gives them another "firearms incident" to log into their records, helps their budgetary claims for more officers, weapons training, helicopters...."
You are tarnishing all police officers as the same as those that you believe control your sport.

And please let us know what you do so I can find some examples of mistakes made by fellows of your trade.
Every day you wake up is a good day!

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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby leadpig » Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm

Duncan wrote:I use my .17 cz for fox's Have had a good shot from around 160-200 yrds, on a good day, with good humidity. On saying that even if it was windy i would still take the shot, as long as you know the corrections, which i have seen people with .223 totaly miss from 100yrds " retards" Note (people) as i see them shot on the same land but have nothing todo with them as they couldnt hit a barn door with a shotgun, let alowne a Rifle, but thats another story ;)

The only question is though " HOW DO THEY GET A FAC " shouldnt they or we even have to prove that we can shoot safely????

interesting :hmm: you would shoot a fox with a 17hmr at 200 yards in windy conditions,yet you call others retards :thdn: ;)
Sidebyside wrote:Leadpig is probably right,( though I hate to admit that :mad: ;) ) .


Fenrir wrote:It is often better to let people think you are a bit simple rather than removing all doubt.
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby varminter » Mon May 18, 2009 6:24 pm

The Burpster wrote:You CONTINUALLY use odd single examples thrown up on here as evidence of a Galactic conspiracy by the Police to stop you shooting.....etc etc

Mein Gott! We have to worry about the Intergalactic Police as well? No, no, you have the wrong idea: you're thinking on the local individual-copper level whereas I'm concerned about our national firearms legislation, and its application at a national level. If you like, the attitudes of senior officers/ACPO and the Home Office. Don't get your knickers in a twist: many ordinary coppers might well be ignorant about firearms but I don't think most of them are actually hostile towards shooting. However, the actions of individual coppers certainly need to be viewed within the context of State attitudes to firearms ownership.
I wonder how long you've been observing the UK firearms scene; you might have been shooting for quite a while, and so have I, but I've also been interested in the ramifications of firearms legislation for several decades now, and I've learned quite a lot about it. It meshes with my political concerns/interests too. And believe me, the sort of things I say here are simply nothing new! Were you paying attention in 1988 when we lost semi-auto rifles? Or in 1996/97 when we came in for vicious anti-shooting propaganda that would have embarrassed Goebbels, and lost our handguns? You should have been reading Handgunner magazine thirty years ago...
I'm a freelance photographer and writer - and NOT, before you get too excited, a news-journo, but an entirely different field, could be Gardeners' Weekly or Rubber & Fetishist Gazette, though I'm not saying which.
Yours, Malcolm
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby rogerhoad » Mon May 18, 2009 6:36 pm

Sorry folks, Didn't mean to start a war between Bob and Malcolm by citing personal experiences.
To balance my comments I have always found my F.E.O to be both reasonable and helpful as have the Firearms Department at Police H.Q. I do know though that this is not the case with all F.E.O's in this area as one of them is so difficult that my F.E.O. ,who shoots himself asked him to leave his home as he was so offensive when dealing with his application.

We must also remember that many members of the Police force shoot themselves and in some instances suffer the same issues with their colleagues as any other shooter.

As certificate holders we must by necessity be among the most temperate and respectable citizens in this country, it is not only the Police who treat us little better than criminals in many cases the general public are the most hostile.

It is our duty to always act responsibly and to try to educate the public at every opportunity.
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Re: Foxes , sorry for the opening the worms can

Postby Chelseablue » Mon May 18, 2009 8:44 pm

I can only speak as i find despite all the stories i got told before i applied for my FAC , [you might have a shotgun licence but FAC is far harder to get ] i have found hertfordshire county firearms Depot very helpfull if not informative .
But i am very aware that the pressure is on me to get it right , [hence the question about shooting fox] I feel that if i get one thing wrong in innocence they will pull my licence , makes me parronoid really . Although Hertfordshire have been more than helpfull i still find it difficult to get good advise [ except from your good selves ] or to ask the FEO for the fear of showing my inexperiance or ignorance , so thanks agin everone for you veiws and input just love it here .

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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby plugg » Mon May 18, 2009 8:50 pm

Edited by Keef as it ties in with deleted post.

I think your reply is a bit childish. This is exactly the type of behaviour that will see you banned.

Im surprised the Mods havent jumped on you.....

Phil
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby Duncan » Mon May 18, 2009 8:55 pm

Anyone els fancy a jump on the wagon?

Just having my point across ok maybe abit harsh, "but im like that"
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby plugg » Mon May 18, 2009 9:06 pm

Duncan wrote:Anyone els fancy a jump on the wagon?

Just having my point across ok maybe abit harsh, "but im like that"


No-one is saying you cant have an opinion, what I am saying is have some respect for others opinions. If you disagree with something...fine; so what, that answer you gave is not a good reflection on yourself.

Treat others how you would like to be treated, at least on here.

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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby Trex » Mon May 18, 2009 9:19 pm

Quote edited out

Keef



With a drop of between 8 and 14" or so inches at 200 yards it's not an impossible shot to make by any means but to make it on a fox with the drop off in energy between 160-200yards and the lack of guarentee of a hard, clean strike with .17HMR does appear somewhat immoral.

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Re: Foxes , sorry for the opening the worms can

Postby pierred » Mon May 18, 2009 9:20 pm

Chelseablue wrote:I can only speak as i find despite all the stories i got told before i applied for my FAC , [you might have a shotgun licence but FAC is far harder to get ] i have found hertfordshire county firearms Depot very helpfull if not informative .
But i am very aware that the pressure is on me to get it right , [hence the question about shooting fox] I feel that if i get one thing wrong in innocence they will pull my licence , makes me parronoid really . Although Hertfordshire have been more than helpfull i still find it difficult to get good advise [ except from your good selves ] or to ask the FEO for the fear of showing my inexperiance or ignorance , so thanks agin everone for you veiws and input just love it here .

Brian

Chelseablue Iam a local shooter with a bit of experiance i am only up the road and have a good working relationship with Herts FLO ( Humane Dispatch )if you ever need any help with shooting matters or firearm law or anything else as a matter of fact you are more than welcome to give me a shout and i will do my best to help or point you in the right direction if i cant :thup:
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Re: Foxes , What is the law on shooting fox ?

Postby hungryrob » Mon May 18, 2009 9:25 pm

Thanks for the sane voices guys.

I'd say this is a thread best laid to rest at this point. Pehaps lessons have been learned, maybe not but it's heading towards a battle amd I'd prefer it to settle down. ;)
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