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Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

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Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Coldfinger » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:27 pm

Can't see this already posted on the site

For the civilian full bore rifle shooters using military ranges

5 56mm ball carton ban.pdf
(169.02 KiB) Downloaded 33 times

NEW URGENT SAFETY BANS 10092017.doc
(162.5 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Jubbles » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:26 pm

I don't see anything here about a ban on the use of mil surplus ammo.
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Coldfinger » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:16 am

It states all 5.56mm ball carton L17A2 ammo manufactured before 2015 is now banned

Ban.jpg


See also https://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32377 (no posts are mine)
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Hornet 6 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:48 am

Many people use this ammo in a .223, they shouldn't, but still do.
How many people would actually be affected by this ban, ie. who shoots a proper proofed 5.56 nato rifle ?

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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby flintlok » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:13 pm

I shoot 5.56 military ball. Please feel free to ship your surplus ball ammo over here. I'm always looking for inexpensive blasting away ammo. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Jubbles » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:15 pm

Hornet 6 wrote:Many people use this ammo in a .223, they shouldn't, but still do.
How many people would actually be affected by this ban, ie. who shoots a proper proofed 5.56 nato rifle ?

Neil.


Anyone with a VZ.58, or a Straight Pull AR-15 with a M4 profile barrel, anyone with a Mossberg rifle.

I have literally never heard of, read about or seen any proof that using 5.56 in a .223 rem chamber has caused issues. I am open to being shown otherwise but frankly no one will produce a .223 barrel that is incapable of safely handling 5.56 ammunition.
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Jubbles » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:26 pm

Coldfinger wrote:It states all 5.56mm ball carton L17A2 ammo manufactured before 2015 is now banned

Ban.jpg


See also https://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32377 (no posts are mine)


Interesting although from the wording only Carton L17A2 and not Bandolier L17A2 is banned.

This is very strange, and leads to the following questions/points:

- The actually ammunition designation is L2A2 not L17A2, so is the ammunition being banned or the use of ammunition stored in a specific type of container? Ie. If any surplus ammunition was sold in bandoliers not cartons then it would be obvious to see who has ammo they shouldn't have if they are opening the boxes on the range (a long shot yes I know but says rules are based on intelligent decisions?)

- The ranges mentioned in the Full Bore thread are Catterick Ranges, this is not a general sale or use ban but a specific ban on the use of said ammo on those ranges. I would assume that perhaps some ricochets have been occuring or some such event which requires the ranges to only be used with other calibres.

- If the military seeks to continue to use this ammunition but prevent civilians on these ranges the question has to be: Why? What impact are they seeking to achieve?

The whole thing smells a bit odd to me, it doesn't seem to be a full coherent message, rather we are seeing snippets of things.

Perhaps someone could get in writing the full story before we decide that something is entirely banned.
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby flintlok » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:38 am

The Brits once dumped over pressure 556 ammo on them American surplus market. Most folks were aware of the hot ammo and still shot it anyway. Nobody's gun blew up and the stuff sold as the price was right. I've pulled apart Turkish surplus 8mm mauser ammo. The stuff was very hot and loaded all over the place with powder charges. I pulled 1000 rounds apart and found the powder charges varied from 39 grains to 45 grains. I set all of the charges to 40 grains and reassembled the cartridges. The reloaded ammo shot great.
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Hornet 6 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:52 am

Jubbles wrote:I have literally never heard of, read about or seen any proof that using 5.56 in a .223 rem chamber has caused issues. I am open to being shown otherwise but frankly no one will produce a .223 barrel that is incapable of safely handling 5.56 ammunition.

As far as I am aware only CZ has said it is fine to use 5.56 nato ammo in their sporting rifles.
As for the guns you mention, never owned one, don't know anybody who does, and never seen one in the field.
Also nothing to do with the barrel, it is the chamber, and 5.56 is not the same as .223 rem.

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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Jubbles » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:02 pm

Hornet 6 wrote:
Jubbles wrote:I have literally never heard of, read about or seen any proof that using 5.56 in a .223 rem chamber has caused issues. I am open to being shown otherwise but frankly no one will produce a .223 barrel that is incapable of safely handling 5.56 ammunition.

As far as I am aware only CZ has said it is fine to use 5.56 nato ammo in their sporting rifles.
As for the guns you mention, never owned one, don't know anybody who does, and never seen one in the field.
Also nothing to do with the barrel, it is the chamber, and 5.56 is not the same as .223 rem.

Neil.


Exactly and CZ are not making barrels that are any different from anyone else's.

You should have a look around the range more often then all the rifles I mentioned are very common :cheese:

The chamber is part of the barrel, so it is to do with the barrel.
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Matt H » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:03 pm

I received this email yesterday, last line being the relevant part:

Further to our email of 21st November 2017 informing clubs of temporary restrictions for .50 calibre shooting on Field Firing Ranges I have been extremely concerned to learn that DIO Warminster have received a flurry of FOI requests and queries from MPs over these restrictions.

This is causing DIO, on whose support we depend, a great deal of unnecessary work.

I would like to remind all NRA affiliated clubs who shoot on MoD ranges that civilian full bore shooting on MoD ranges has been arranged through an agreement between the MoD and NRA.

I will be grateful if you could ensure that, with immediate effect, any queries about civilian shooting on MoD ranges other than routine enquiries about range bookings etc. are directed at the NRA (either to Nic Couldrey nicholas.couldrey@nra.org.uk or Iain Robertson iain.robertson@nra.org.uk)

I have assured DIO Warminster that any club, or member of any club, that does not abide by this instruction risks having their NRA Affiliation suspended or cancelled.

The NRA, by working closely with the MoD, has enjoyed a long a fruitful relationship that maintained civilian access to MoD ranges. For this to continue we need to recognise that DIO are facing considerable demands on their resources; it is critical that they view civilian shooting as a valuable partner to the MoD.

For the avoidance of doubt I can confirm the MoD has not banned civilian shooting, or the use of 5.56 calibre, on military ranges.

Regards

Andrew Mercer

Group Chief Executive & Secretary General
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Re: Military Surplus 5.56mm ball ammo ban

Postby Jubbles » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:39 am

Well you can't get any more clear than that. I did say it made no sense.
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