Shot Placement On Foxes With a .17HMR

[plugg]

If this is the case then the advice only to shoot foxes at close range may not be helpful as velocities at closer ranges would remain higher, meaning that the chances of bullet break-up before penetration would be higher.

I wish there was a 25-30 grain soft-point bullet option at 2200 for the HMR - I reckon that would be excellent for foxes at close - moderate range.

You might be right there Brian

Last year, summer time, I was lying in a field with a .22LR pinging bunnies as they descended from a railway bank. It wasn't particularly sporting but it was clinical pest control and it needed to be done

Im sure all of you reading this will be familiar with the feeling you get when you are being watched?

I had the .22-250 with me (I am conditioned to take ground game with it) as the embankment extends another 200 yards or so, plus the fact that I know the field I was lying in was a major transit route for fox en route to a nearby chicken farm...So there was always a chance of shooting a fox.

Anyway, I digressed there a little.

As I was saying, that feeling when you know something is watching you?

I looked over my shoulder and there stood not 40 yards away was a fox! The '250 was loaded, with the chamber empty. As stealthily as possible I picked the '250 up, racked the bolt, quick check for a backstop over the top of the scope and shot at the fox with a 55gr Vmax. As another little digression, the 55 gr bullet travels at ~3850fps and around 1700ft/lbs at the muzzle.
On impact the bullet floored the fox, knocking lumps out of him and after a high pitched squeal the fox took to his heels and I never saw him/her again.

The point is, there is a massive difference in the velocities and muzzle energy of a .17HMR with a 17 or 20 grain bullet and a .22-250 with 55gr (VMax) bullet at 40 yards.
Im sure, and as pointed out by Leadpig IIRC, that the bullet didnt get a chance to open up OR never met enough resistance to open up on the fox. I am however sure that I seen an impact in the ground beyond the fox which could have very well been the bullet exiting.

[Triffid]

It seems to me that the issue with .17 HMR is not one of power, but of bullet construction for adequate penetration on bigger animals like a fox.

Absolutely spot on. That's why I'd happily take a fox at short range (50m) with a .22rf, but not with an HMR.
Triffid

[hungryrob]

I've seen a young fox shot at 50 yards with an HMR in the head..

The bullet struck an upper tooth, travelling to the back of the jaw and no further. Poor sod ran off dazed and was promptly shot again in the chest. It took another shot to put it out of it's misery. The shooter at that point decided never to shoot another fox with the HMR as it was a pretty horrible experience.

He sold the hummer shortly afterwards

[Stinkfoot]

I owned an HMR for less than a year but found it inconsistent on bunnies.
Some would explode as though hit with a centrefire bullet while others would barely show entry and exit holes.
I can't actually recall a rabbit getting away after being hit by such a force but I'm sure that some of the wounds, had they been on foxes, would not have been fatal.
I'll be buying another one in the new year for corvids and rabbits but I'll never raise the barrel to a fox.

[leadpig]

I owned an HMR for less than a year but found it inconsistent on bunnies.
Some would explode as though hit with a centrefire bullet while others would barely show entry and exit holes.
I can't actually recall a rabbit getting away after being hit by such a force but I'm sure that some of the wounds, had they been on foxes, would not have been fatal.
I'll be buying another one in the new year for corvids and rabbits but I'll never raise the barrel to a fox.

thats why we switched to hm2/mach2 the hmr was to inconsistent it would either blow rabbits apart or just pass straight through,all the energy from hm2 stays inside bugs,very little mess and very dead bugs

[mathspete]

South Yorkshire will not condition ANY rimfire calibre for foxes, end of story. When out rabbiting with both 22lr and HMR I have had to decline shots on foxes because I want to keep my ticket . However if they happen to wander in front of the 204 or the 250 its goodnight charlie

[1in9]

Before I start, I will say I have never shot a fox with my HMR. This is all therefore theoretical, and you must take it or leave it.

It seems to me that the issue with .17 HMR is not one of power, but of bullet construction for adequate penetration on bigger animals like a fox.

Agreed, with the regular V-max if you're trying to put one in the engine room and hit a rib there is no guarantee it'll do the business as desired.

That said there are the 20gn CCI gamepoint rounds which mushroom rather than fragment. So better penetration.

I have a five shot mag in a back pocket in case I run into an unlucky fox...

[Stewartyg]

South Yorkshire will not condition ANY rimfire calibre for foxes, end of story. When out rabbiting with both 22lr and HMR I have had to decline shots on foxes because I want to keep my ticket . However if they happen to wander in front of the 204 or the 250 its goodnight charlie

We are the same here!!

[Stinkfoot]

South Yorkshire will not condition ANY rimfire calibre for foxes, end of story. When out rabbiting with both 22lr and HMR I have had to decline shots on foxes because I want to keep my ticket . However if they happen to wander in front of the 204 or the 250 its goodnight charlie

We are the same here!!

Are you sure?
I had heard the same thing about our police but thought there would be no harm in asking. I had a long conversation with the head of the firearms department about it and, although reluctant at first, I guess he thought I was trustworthy enough to stick to my side of the bargain and granted me conditioning for fox with WMR. I had no intention of asking for fox with HMR but it seemed obvious he wouldn't have agreed to that since his primary concern was muzzle energy. IIRC, he said that 500 ft/lbs was the acceptable minimum for fox.
My argument was that I wasn't looking for a fox calibre, but rather the authority to shoot fox with a rabbit gun if I happen to come across one at close quarters. He asked me to call back in a few hours while he considered my request. I'm pleased to say the answer was yes.
If you don't ask..........

[Bushdog]

1 in 9 - yes I've tried the 20gn hollow points on rabbits and to be honest I can't tell a difference from the Vmax.
I would like to try the FMJ bullets that I believe are available - not on animals, but in side by side penetration tests.

[Buffy Vampire Slayer]

I would like to try the FMJ bullets that I believe are available

you got any info on these
weight/speed etc.
i can`t find any info anywhere

[Bushdog]

Henry Kranks has them, apparently. All they say is 20gn FMJ, made by CCI. From other sources on the net I have seen 2350 quoted for velocity.

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?mai ... ts_id=4753

[Buffy Vampire Slayer]

Henry Kranks has them, apparently. All they say is 20gn FMJ, made by CCI. From other sources on the net I have seen 2350 quoted for velocity.

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?mai ... ts_id=4753

thanks for that
they`re not cheap though @ over £9 more than what i`m paying for hornady v-max.
on the plus side kranks aren`t too far from me

[Bushdog]

Bloody long way for me - I keep hoping one of the dealers down here will have some in when I remember to ask, but no lluck so far!

If you try them, I'd be interested to hear the results.

[plugg]

£28 for 100 rounds?

That is shocking!