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Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette rifle

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Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette rifle

Postby Calfed » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:33 pm

My youngest son and I shot the match with our Ljungmans. As usual, he kicked my *****.

Match is 40 rounds, 10 rounds each at chickens (220 yards), pigs (330 yards), turkeys (420 yards), and rams (550 yards), shot with military semi auto rifles. Match winner come from the "as issued" vintage class.

Here's a pic of the range...

Image

As you can see from the results sheet, there ain't much "vintage" left in the "vintage" match.
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby flintlok » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:28 am

Nice day for a match and congrats to your son for a good placement. Young eyes will be you we old men everytime. I love shooting vintage rifles. My latest acquisition in a calvary model Carcano Model 38. It's like an M1 Carbine of bolt action rifles. The bore is mirror. I intend to shoot gas checked hard cast from it. It's something to do.
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby Calfed » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:22 am

flintlok wrote:Nice day for a match and congrats to your son for a good placement. Young eyes will be you we old men everytime. I love shooting vintage rifles. My latest acquisition in a calvary model Carcano Model 38. It's like an M1 Carbine of bolt action rifles. The bore is mirror. I intend to shoot gas checked hard cast from it. It's something to do.


Thanks, Flinty. My sons and I have shot military silhouette for years and have a great time doing it.

Your Carcano sounds great. What diameter bullets are you using?
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby flintlok » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:16 pm

I picked up a 270 diameter bullet mold from NOE. The cast weight is 165 grain. I have a 0.269 sizing die. I did cast the bullets but I haven't had a chance to load them yet. I have a major kitchen project for the wife as a distraction. I do have the Hornady .268 diameter thick jacketed bullets. I've only fired those rounds at 30 yards with iron sights in a indoor range. The grouped nicely. The kitchen project has grabbed all of my free time so I haven't made it to the outdoor range. I'm looking forward to some range time as the weather in September in New England is the best.
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby Calfed » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:30 pm

flintlok wrote:I picked up a 270 diameter bullet mold from NOE. The cast weight is 165 grain. I have a 0.269 sizing die. I did cast the bullets but I haven't had a chance to load them yet. I have a major kitchen project for the wife as a distraction. I do have the Hornady .268 diameter thick jacketed bullets. I've only fired those rounds at 30 yards with iron sights in a indoor range. The grouped nicely. The kitchen project has grabbed all of my free time so I haven't made it to the outdoor range. I'm looking forward to some range time as the weather in September in New England is the best.


Good deal.

A lot of people do not realize that the Carcano 6.5 is .268 rather than .264 diameter.

Is your carbine one that has the Carcano "gain" rifling?
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby flintlok » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:42 am

The Carcano that I have was manufactured in 1938. The barrel does have gain twist rifling. It was used for the production of the M38 calvary carbine. The earlier short rifles were chopped barrels from the earlier full length Model 91's. The full length barrels were gain twist and when chopped the remaining rifling was insufficient to stabilize the long drill rod looking bullets. These M38 Calvary barreld gain twist rate was designed for the short barrel. I did own a chopped Model 91 and it wouldn't group at all. This M38 groups. The bullet holes were touching and near touch each other at 30 yards. The rifle is in 6.5 mm and it's a very mild caliber to shoot. I'm not sure as to how appropriate the jacketed load was for the military. It's appears as if the round would leave a clean bullet hole in and out. It really looks like a bit of over stablized flying drill rod. The bullet jacket is extra thick harden gilding metal. It looks like lead loads would have been a more effective load or at least they would tend to deform better than the jacketed rounds. The rifling in the barrel is extra thick and with the gain twist I suspect that it should shoot hard cast like a charm.
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby flintlok » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:10 am

I should mention that the rifle is provided with a folding bayonet. It's about as flimsy as one an imagine. I wouldn't want to use it in a fellow as it might pissed him off enough to give me a beating. It's little better than a length of sharpened wire coat hanger. I would likely get the Joan Crawford line "No more metal coat hanger coat hangers" from the enemy.
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby Calfed » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:01 pm

flintlok wrote:The Carcano that I have was manufactured in 1938. The barrel does have gain twist rifling. It was used for the production of the M38 calvary carbine. The earlier short rifles were chopped barrels from the earlier full length Model 91's. The full length barrels were gain twist and when chopped the remaining rifling was insufficient to stabilize the long drill rod looking bullets. These M38 Calvary barreld gain twist rate was designed for the short barrel. I did own a chopped Model 91 and it wouldn't group at all. This M38 groups. The bullet holes were touching and near touch each other at 30 yards. The rifle is in 6.5 mm and it's a very mild caliber to shoot. I'm not sure as to how appropriate the jacketed load was for the military. It's appears as if the round would leave a clean bullet hole in and out. It really looks like a bit of over stablized flying drill rod. The bullet jacket is extra thick harden gilding metal. It looks like lead loads would have been a more effective load or at least they would tend to deform better than the jacketed rounds. The rifling in the barrel is extra thick and with the gain twist I suspect that it should shoot hard cast like a charm.


Interesting about the cut down barrels.

This is probably a little impertinent, but I wonder which barrel LHO 's Carcano had.



flintlok wrote:I should mention that the rifle is provided with a folding bayonet. It's about as flimsy as one an imagine. I wouldn't want to use it in a fellow as it might pissed him off enough to give me a beating. It's little better than a length of sharpened wire coat hanger. I would likely get the Joan Crawford line "No more metal coat hanger coat hangers" from the enemy.


Well, if you can't stab them with the bayonet, maybe you could scratch them to death. :grin:
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby flintlok » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:12 am

LHO used a Fucile Corto Modello 38 or Model 38 short rifle in 6.5×52 mm caliber. It features a constant twist rate of one in 8.46 inches (21.5 cm). I have a neat book on Carcano rifles with all of the statistics. To me I find the weakness of the Carcano is in the clips. If the clip is bent in any way if even a little that will cause the ammunition to bind so that the ammo doesn't feed reliably. The clips are made of somewhat flimsy sheet metal. I had to bend some my clips to feed reliably. Also the round needs to be fed from the clip i.e. picked up by the bolt. If not and hand fed into the chamber, the extractor will bend the rim of the casing causing major blow back on firing. It definitely a push feed system that needs to have bolt worked with authority. If everything is correct the gun works like a top. The recoil isn't all that different than the M1 Carbine. It's really a light handy rifle with fixed iron sights set for 300 meters. My Calvary Carbine fixed sights are also set for 300 meters. It does need a better feed system but you can get by with the existing clips as long as they don't bind. LHO was nuts but he worked through the problems with the rifle. The ranges were short and with a scope it was difficult to miss if he kept his nerve. As a hunting rifle and expanding bullets it should work fine on medium game. The Calvary Model would be an easy carry rifle in the woods. In New England with it's dense brush it should be as effective as a 30-30 or so.
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby Calfed » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:31 am

The 160 gr Carcano bullet has phenomenal sectional density and amazing penetration
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby Coldfinger » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:35 pm

Is nobody going to comment on how lucky you are to have such a range to shoot on.

That looks excellent.

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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby flintlok » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:42 pm

Coldfinger wrote:Is nobody going to comment on how lucky you are to have such a range to shoot on.

That looks excellent.

CF


Yes, I agree. That's a great range. :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup:
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Re: Ljungmans in the Vintage Semi auto military silhouette r

Postby Calfed » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:24 am

Coldfinger wrote:Is nobody going to comment on how lucky you are to have such a range to shoot on.

That looks excellent.

CF


flintlok wrote:
Coldfinger wrote:Is nobody going to comment on how lucky you are to have such a range to shoot on.

That looks excellent.

CF


Yes, I agree. That's a great range. :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup:

Thanks, CF and flinty. I'm a member of the range and it is amazingly inexpensive ($60/year, which is the "senior" rate). In addition to the silhouette range, it has a 1000 yard range, "cowboy shooting" range, 100, 200, and 300 yard ranges, tactical ranges, 50 yard pistol, small bore, etc.

Here is the satellite view of it...you can see the staggered berms of the silhouette range in the middle of the complex.

https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=38.44031290637764~-121.0633072846057&lvl=15&dir=0&sty=h&form=LMLTCC

The range is about an hour's drive from my house.
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