Why have an FAC air rifle over a live fire rifle?

[mr smith]

Some rounds you might wish to consider:

• Aguila Colibri .22 Long 20 gr 575 fps
• CCI CB Cap 22 Long 29 gr 710 fps
• Fiocchi Super Match 200 .22 Short 29 gr 800 fps
• Lapua Rapid Star .22 Short 29 gr 780 fps
• RWS R25 .22 Short 28 gr 560 fps
• Winchester CB Cap .22 Short 29 gr 700 fps
• RWS FP50 .22 LR 40 gr 885 fps
• Eley Zimmer .22 LR 40 gr 800 fps

Kev.

Cheers Kev,will have to see if i can track some down and see what there like.

[hungryrob]

Simple :

1. easier to get an open ticket
2. No ricochet problems
3. great in trees
4. Cheap ammo

I'm with Gry onthis one Kev; try easier to get a ticket full stop.

My FEO wouldn't understand the bit about low power .22 rimfire ammo If I were a new applicant, the FAC air would be a good way in as long as I had a bit of land. It's difficult to see how they can refuse it..

Robbie

[Beer Hunter]

I'm with Gry onthis one Kev; try easier to get a ticket full stop.

My FEO wouldn't understand the bit about low power .22 rimfire ammo If I were a new applicant, the FAC air would be a good way in as long as I had a bit of land. It's difficult to see how they can refuse it..

Robbie

I'm afraid I disagree Robbie. Forgetting the bit about low power rounds for a moment; you either have a good reason to possess a firearm or not - assuming the land in question is suitable for either, the power source is irrelevant.
It may be easier to get an open ticket with air in some areas - however, taking Grampian as an example - they have a policy of no open tickets until your first renewal - NO exceptions.

Kev.

[The Burpster]

+1 to Kev... Whilst I realise each Police force seems to do its own thing.... I was actually talked into putting r/f on my FAC as well as FAC air as he told me I'd son get fed up with it....

I resisted for a few years but in teh end he was so right.

[Andy.I]

I've no illusions as to how somebody coming from the powder burning side might prefer low powered .22 to FAC, but by the same token, somebody coming from the air side of things would just as easily find FAC air justifiable.

However, nobody has actually answered my original question, so let me rephrase it: how is a .22LR with 15 grain heads be less dangerous than FAC air (at a similar velocity) in every respect?

Andy,

You are being pig headed for the sake of it.
As you bloody well know, I was trying to demonstrate that it is possible to shoot a .22 rifle with less powerful rounds than come from FAC air. Obviously lower velocity with the same head weight = lower energy = less distance = potentially less dangerous.
I said nothing about similar head weights at the same velocity being less dangerous
Other rounds are available with equal or more energy - again demonstrating the greater flexibility of the .22 rifle.

To set the record straight, I came from the world of airguns too, but I've been educated now and sold them all

Being serious, non FAC air has its place, but I just don't understand FAC air at all. From a safety standpoint, there is simply no situation I can see were it can be used and low powered .22 cannot.
There may be landowners who request air only - golf courses etc - but that's just a case of explaining the low power rounds clearly to them.

Now, if you just want to shoot FAC air, I certainly don't have a problem with it; it's your choice. Robbie on here uses FAC air and loves it. I've used his rifle several times and its great. However, I certainly wouldn't go out and spend a grand on a setup when I can do the same with a £8.50 box of ammo!

Each to their own.

Kev.

I read what you wrote Kev, and didn't understand, which is why I asked again. I might be thick, but not pig-headed.

Your reference to people preferring air over powder supports my confusion, because why go to the effort of trying to educate people, when we all know that many people will either refuse to be educated or at least remain suspicious, and the alternative is possible?

I don't have any problem with either alternative; I have my interests just as you have yours.

[Shootist]

Guys,

You can get .22LR rounds that shoot 15 grain heads at 570 fps!
These are less dangerous than FAC air in every respect.

Kev.

Can you tell us the make please? I'd like to see if I can order some locally. FWIW, I have tried Eley Zimmers and they are good, but theres still a considerable ricochet hazard. CCI longs are so inaccurate as to be a waste of time (at least in all five of my .22rfs at any rate) and still are a ricochet hazard where you are shooting in confined areas, where I would currently use my FAC air rifle.

[Beer Hunter]

Can you tell us the make please? I'd like to see if I can order some locally. FWIW, I have tried Eley Zimmers and they are good, but theres still a considerable ricochet hazard. CCI longs are so inaccurate as to be a waste of time (at least in all five of my .22rfs at any rate) and still are a ricochet hazard where you are shooting in confined areas, where I would currently use my FAC air rifle.

from within the thread ;)

Just looked in the cabinet - I'm using 'CCI CB Long' - part # 0038. They use a 29 grain bullet and If I remember correctly, they chronod at 680 fps for 30 lb.ft
They are fine (sub inch) to 50 yards in my CZ Jeff.

Kev.

[Judge Ali]

Looks like a lot of pros and cons and on this one!

From what I can gather reading here it seems an FAC air rifles only benefit is when you are in a situation and you want a bit more power than 12 ft/lbs but dont need (or want to risk) firing at a velocity of a .22lr.

Thanks for the replies, I have a much better idea on this subject now.

Cheers
Alex

[Linegeist]

Might have a little squirrel clearing job thanks to Robbie,now he reckons it's an airgun jobbie(due to location of nearby houses) but reading this thread makes me wonder if these lower powered rounds may be up to the job.Going to have a look around the location sometime this week,maybe find somewhere to bait them with a good backstop.

Some rounds you might wish to consider:

• Aguila Colibri .22 Long 20 gr 575 fps
• CCI CB Cap 22 Long 29 gr 710 fps
• Fiocchi Super Match 200 .22 Short 29 gr 800 fps
• Lapua Rapid Star .22 Short 29 gr 780 fps
• RWS R25 .22 Short 28 gr 560 fps
• Winchester CB Cap .22 Short 29 gr 700 fps
• RWS FP50 .22 LR 40 gr 885 fps
• Eley Zimmer .22 LR 40 gr 800 fps

Kev.

Now THAT'S seriously good info Kev. Ta muchly!!!

[Linegeist]

....and cases. CASES! You know...them brass thingies you lot leave all over the place. Well me 'n my FAC Air don't leave no cases, see? Everything wot we shoot goes down the barrel and into the quarry. Environ-wotsitly bum-chumly an' stuff!

Well, almost everything goes into the quarry ....

But we leave no detritus behind - and a LOT of inconsiderate shooters leave brass everywhere - and MY stable owners don't like that ... which is why I/we got the job.

[Gary C]

....and of course...last time Herr Craske got hold of a live firer France surrendered. It was hushed up under pressure from the Poles who, fearing invasion, pointed out to the French how much fun it was to have the Germans as guests. The queued, bathed, and made the champs elysses look good with lots of men marching in step. They even taught the French women to shave their moustaches. At least with an air gun they only stock up on white flags and start to teach German in les ecoles.

The warning signs are there, he has already made a 1:1 scale model of a Panther tank from Lego and is trying to buy an Airfix Stuka , half scale, and looking for a small pilot.

It will end is tears

[Linegeist]

Gawwy, you're such a nathty bully .... always pulling wank!

[Greyhair]

I just don't see the point at all.

Kev.

Because come the revolution, and you guys have used up your 500 allowance, those of us with gas ram FAC and 10 tins of Bisley Magnums in stock, are going to rule the world.

[Gary C]

I guess we sometimes miss the intangible. Sheer enjoyment and satisfaction of shooting what we enjoy

[Linegeist]

I guess we sometimes miss the intangible. Sheer enjoyment and satisfaction of shooting what we enjoy

As reasons go, that's hard to fault. Nicely put too.

I really do like shooting live-fire stuff - I always have ... but for me, there's also something immensely satisfying about putting a few mags of Daystate .177" FT pellets through the centre of a suspended 1/2" washer at 30 yards without 'ringing the bell'.

I like the clinicality of PCPs - it's like using a fine precision instrument. No bang, no smoke, no dirt, no recoil (to speak of) just me and the rifle.

Why? I just love that Axsor and its feel in my hands.