Sub 12ftlb. 17 or .22.

[247sniper]

Ok guys, what's best for sub 50 yards bunnies, crows in trees etc and night vision rat shooting.

Sub 12 ftlb in .22 or .17?

[humperdingle]

The age-old airgunning question

For me, .177 purely beacause it's flatter-shooting, but wouldn't take it out to 50 yards... in fact, I wouldn't personally shoot at any live quarry with a sub 12ft lb air rifle beyond about 30 yards.

You can discuss the humane aspects of that until the cows come home, but that's my personal view.

[Hornet 6]

.22 for me, but not at 50 yards.

Neil.

[Les1066]

I prefer a .177 for anything over 30 - 35 yards.

[Viperteks]

.177 ballisticaly superior at 12ft/lb limit, it's been done to death over the last 30 years, .22 for VERY close range or in warehouses. 177 for everything else

Dave

[scoop]

.22 for me i just don't get on with .177

[Shootist]

At 50 yards, neither.

[Viperteks]

At 50 yards, neither.

Did a starling when I was 14 with a .22 MK3 Webley at about 100yds, just a 'fun' shot, with a swag holdover. I shit myself when it fell out of the tree about 2 seconds later. Don't know who was more surprised.

No - I am not proud of it

But 40yds MAX with my airguns

Dave

[leadpig]

.22 for me i just don't get on with .177

ditto

[Deallad]

I had an Air Arms s400 in 177

Far superior than 22 any day flatter faster and more accurate, its been proved time and time again

.22 when FAC 16ft lb and above

Mike

[Nathan2312]

dont want to get involved with the bitter never ending feud between the 177 guys and the 22 guys, but i just gathered some info from a few pages i found on line with some stats..

it kinda means little to me lol but sounds like the best for 50 yard is a .22, but i guess in field there are a lot of variables that will have a massive effect on the below stats.

but here it is,



The values ​​were obtained under the following conditions:

air pressure: 1013 hPa
temperature: 68 °F
altitude: 22 yd
air density: 1.197 kg/m3

using the Field Target Trophy pellets

.177
Grain = 8.64
Ballistic coefficient = 0.012
initial energy = 12 ft/lbs
ft/sec = 784

.177 stats at 50 yards
energy it will hit target is 4 ft/lbs
speed of travel = 436ft/sec

due to lack of weight the energy value is 31% at 50 yards

.22
Grain = 14.66
Ballistic coefficient = 0.019
initial energy = 12 ft/lbs
ft/sec = 604

.22 at 50 yards
energy it will hit target is 6 ft/lbs
speed of travel = 417 ft/sec
due to weight the energy value is 48% at 50 yards

with a head shot to a rabbit it needs 4 or over ft/lbs of energy to give a clean kill. the only thing scientifically stopping long range hunting is human error, the more calculations your able to do based on BC, travel resistance, angle of incline "which will obviously alter the gravity aspect" and wind speeds.

even at 100 yards a .22 pellet will be traveling at 378.9 ft/sec and hold an energy of 4.6 ft/lbs, the travel time will be 0.69 of a second. based with no wind or incline. which is still capable of giving a clean kill "scientifically"

[Viperteks]

dont want to get involved with the bitter never ending feud between the 177 guys and the 22 guys, but i just gathered some info from a few pages i found on line with some stats..

it kinda means little to me lol but sounds like the best for 50 yard is a .22, but i guess in field there are a lot of variables that will have a massive effect on the below stats.

but here it is,



The values ​​were obtained under the following conditions:

air pressure: 1013 hPa
temperature: 68 °F
altitude: 22 yd
air density: 1.197 kg/m3

using the Field Target Trophy pellets

.177
Grain = 8.64
Ballistic coefficient = 0.012
initial energy = 12 ft/lbs
ft/sec = 784

.177 stats at 50 yards
energy it will hit target is 4 ft/lbs
speed of travel = 436ft/sec

due to lack of weight the energy value is 31% at 50 yards

.22
Grain = 14.66
Ballistic coefficient = 0.019
initial energy = 12 ft/lbs
ft/sec = 604

.22 at 50 yards
energy it will hit target is 6 ft/lbs
speed of travel = 417 ft/sec
due to weight the energy value is 48% at 50 yards

with a head shot to a rabbit it needs 4 or over ft/lbs of energy to give a clean kill. the only thing scientifically stopping long range hunting is human error, the more calculations your able to do based on BC, travel resistance, angle of incline "which will obviously alter the gravity aspect" and wind speeds.

even at 100 yards a .22 pellet will be traveling at 378.9 ft/sec and hold an energy of 4.6 ft/lbs, the travel time will be 0.69 of a second. based with no wind or incline. which is still capable of giving a clean kill "scientifically"

That just tells me that 50yds is a DAFT distance to shoot Rabbits at with a Air-rifle - do you have the figures a 40yds and the source for the information given.

Mainly use .22RF on rabbits these days - no pissing about!

Dae

[Nathan2312]

The ballistic data was taken from http://www.hn-sport.de/en/products/air-gun-pellets/energy-values-ballistic-coefficient.html

The weight of the pellet explanation and the angle of incline is on youtube, I think the info was on airarmshuntingsa channel and Fieldsports Channel

The power needed to kill a rabbit is on airarmshuntingsa facebook page and also on one of his videos

But I actually just found a new phone app, iStrelok you can enter the data for a shot, hit "calculate" then at the bottom there is a table button click that and you can change the settings for every meter of travel and it tells you the ft/sec ft/lbs and how much to adjust your scope for each meter etc. You need the weight of pellet or bullet, its ballistic coefficient, and its Ft/sec

I made an error in my previous post I should have said meter not yards.

"even at 100 yards a .22 pellet will be traveling at 378.9 Ft/sec and hold an energy of 4.6 Ft/lbs, the travel time will be 0.69 of a second. Based with no wind or incline. Which is still capable of giving a clean kill "scientifically"


a 40 meter shot is

.22 pellet at 40 "meters" speed 506.6 Ft/sec hits with 8.1 Ft/lbs takes 0.24 second travel time, again that is with no wind or incline and the pellet weight and coefficient is based on the webley accupell

and a 177 pellet at 40 "meters" speed 554.5 Ft/sec hits with 5.9 Ft/lbs takes 0.21 second travel time, this is based on the weight and BC of the Field Target Trophy pellets


I accidentally started learning all this when deciding what type of pellet to select lol
but as I said in previous post this is literally science, physics and math in the field I should guess it means little, or it might, its a bit over my head lol

i think the biggest reason not to take them type of shots is for the pellet to get there it takes a lot of calculations and luck, even if the pellet can reach with power for a kill the odds for human error or enviromental fluctuations is massive,

im still struggling with 30 meter on targets lol

[Viperteks]

Nathan

Thanks for that!

I have shot air-rifles for nigh on 40 years, the 40mtr figures are far better and the max range I would use a Air-rifle to shoot rabbit.

Most on here are well aware of Strelock, and I think it is excellent for Firearm use - However I think it is pissing in the wind for airgun use . I shot intinctively at most airgun quarry - and THAT is the reasoon I use .177, far flatter trajectory and PBR range - for MOST targets you have not got the time to be messing about with a smartphone app

That's the problem these days, young shooters ( I am guessing you are slightly younger than me) don't learn their 'craft', mildot scopes, lazers, phone apps.

We just practiced, practiced practiced some more, shooting at any target at any ranges until you KNEW you gun inside out - you cannot replace that with technology - only 'enhance' those skills.

So I will stick with my .177 that has shot literally thousands of rabbits, pigeons and all other quarry over the years. LOL

If .22 was THAT good it would be the de-facto calibre for FT/HFT and 10m and 6m target - but it aint, that's why all these disciplines use .177. more accurate, faster at the given distance and less deviation from sightline!

Dave

[Nathan2312]

regarding iStrelok, you think its a waste of time for air guns in general or just sub 12ft/lbs? like i said im new to the field and if its not worth it i will not bother. What i mainly been using the app for is simulation, im not able to get out every week i have a baby girl and try spend lot of time with her. so i just add figures to the app and see what results are etc, i basicly play with the app while at work, i feel i learned a lot from it though, half the stuff i did not have a clue about before i started messing with the app.

40 years! yep probably younger but the tech and so on is evolution, if the young ones dont become better than the old ones we be living in caves still

the tech improves learning speeds, and if on offer why not use it, your using guns and not the bow? so an older bow shooter can say "your not really shooting your just moving your finger", its a natural progression i guess. "really hope there some younger shooters here or im in trouble lol"

i agree with using apps etc in field is to much messing about, but you can use the tec so you know in advance what the ft/lbs are and the BC and so on, like now i do not need the app and i know at 40 meters a .22 pellet hits with 8.1ft/lb based on weight with start value of 12ft/lb. i think its more about prep and education than on the spot in field figures.

im not at the stage where i feel able to hunt yet, i want to get the math and accuracy worked out so i am then able to calculate instantly if im able to take or make a clean kill, so i will use targets until i feel ready to use the air gun on quarry. and its kinda fun testing all the sums, apps and other tech thats out to help with the shot placement.

Be gentle lol

ps .22 is miles better than .177

joke! i really have no preference i got .22 because i did not change the tick on the order to 177 but im really not that worried. either will do what i want it to, the figures was just the facts and dimensions i found out i was not taking sides, but based on the facts id go with 22 if i had to chose lol