divine

Crooked bullets

Ammunition reloading for centerfire or shotgun
Forum rules
Shooters using reloading info and load data in this forum do so at their own risk. Check all loads with printed, commercially available reloading manuals and NEVER exceed maximum powder weights. The board/forum accepts NO liability for accidents! Be careful!

Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:43 pm

Guys
Moving on in the saga of Foxyfils first reloading escapade.
I made up my first batch of bullets for testing today.
I made up 5 batches of 8, each batch with differing powder weights , all within the limits, as recommended by Sierra, the bullet of choice for this batch.
Every now and then, I rolled one or two of them on the flat bench, and it would appear that the bullets are crooked. I ran them thru the press again to no avail. Its not much, but its definitely visible
These are once fired Hornady cases, and brand new RCBS dies, Full Length Sizing and Seating.
Any advice on why the bullets aren't seating straight?
Has the sizing die bent the necks, or is the seating die faulty?
I'm in a dilemma now whether or not I can discharge the rounds through the rifle in case it damages the gun, or worse, me!! :(
Foxyfil
 

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby FXL5 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:18 pm

They'll be fine to fire, unless they're really, really crooked. If you want them perfectly concentric, you can get tools for causing that, but they're expensive and not really important unless you shoot F-class or something like that.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve Order in the world as well as property . . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." -

Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder.
User avatar
FXL5
Hunter
Hunter
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
 
Posts: 861
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:02 pm
Location: Nr Godalming, Surrey, England

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:20 pm

Do you reckon that it would adversely affect the groupings at 100yds?
Foxyfil
 

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:23 pm

How did you set up your seating die?

Kev.
Beer Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
 
Posts: 8352
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby The Burpster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:31 pm

Hmmmmm I presume that the fired once brass was fired in your rifle....?

In which case do you mind me asking why you full sized them again...? If you are loading for accuracy then you really ought to just neck size when they are fireformed. This helps the case to sit snug in the chamber and allows the neck to align with the bore.

You only really need to full size if you are using an auto or semi auto rifle (unlikely in the UK)

Full sizing cases can cause some discrepancies in the cases depending on the amount of pressure used to form them. Your seating die may not be keeping the bullets in the center of the die because of play in it but most likely because the cases are 'floating' slightly as they go up into seating die allowing the bullets to flop to one side as they go into the neck.

No it wont harm your rifle but your accuracy will be all over the place. Bit like factory ammo.
Every day you wake up is a good day!

Bob.
User avatar
The Burpster
Rifleman
Rifleman
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Lincoln (ish)

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:35 pm

The Burpster wrote:Hmmmmm I presume that the fired once brass was fired in your rifle....?

In which case do you mind me asking why you full sized them again...? If you are loading for accuracy then you really ought to just neck size when they are fireformed. This helps the case to sit snug in the chamber and allows the neck to align with the bore.

You only really need to full size if you are using an auto or semi auto rifle (unlikely in the UK)

Full sizing cases can cause some discrepancies in the cases depending on the amount of pressure used to form them. Your seating die may not be keeping the bullets in the center of the die because of play in it but most likely because the cases are 'floating' slightly as they go up into seating die allowing the bullets to flop to one side as they go into the neck.

No it wont harm your rifle but your accuracy will be all over the place. Bit like factory ammo.

Not necessarily - BrassPrep.html

Kev.
Beer Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
 
Posts: 8352
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:42 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:How did you set up your seating die?

Kev.


I followed the instructions on the leaflet that came with it. I put a primed charged case in the shell holder and pulled the ram up. I screwed the die in until it touched the case and then backed it off a full turn, and tightened the nut.
That setting seated the bullet long, and I kept re seating it and measuring it, turning the screw on top, until it hit the requred OAL.
I tightened both the die locking nut again and the seating adjuster nut, and off I went.
The instructions never said anything about the positioning of the bullet prior to seating, but I kept it as straight as I could
I now appreciate that this is something called 'run out' I think, but the aim of all this is accuracy, and if I can't correct it, it all seems a bit pointless.
Foxyfil
 

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:46 pm

The Burpster wrote:Hmmmmm I presume that the fired once brass was fired in your rifle....?

In which case do you mind me asking why you full sized them again...? If you are loading for accuracy then you really ought to just neck size when they are fireformed. This helps the case to sit snug in the chamber and allows the neck to align with the bore.

You only really need to full size if you are using an auto or semi auto rifle (unlikely in the UK)

Full sizing cases can cause some discrepancies in the cases depending on the amount of pressure used to form them. Your seating die may not be keeping the bullets in the center of the die because of play in it but most likely because the cases are 'floating' slightly as they go up into seating die allowing the bullets to flop to one side as they go into the neck.

No it wont harm your rifle but your accuracy will be all over the place. Bit like factory ammo.


Thanks
The problem was that I have had two rifles, a Rem and a Howa, and my pot of cases were mixed brass from both rifles. I know I should have separated them but I never really considered reloading up to now.
I have heard their may be a tool on the market that can correct the run out
Foxyfil
 

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:51 pm

It sounds like you are operating everything fine anyway.

Kev.
Beer Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
 
Posts: 8352
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby The Burpster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:54 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:Not necessarily - BrassPrep.html

Kev.


Interesting article but it mentions nothing about how the rifle was mounted or shot, could there still be a human element involved in the resultant groups?

I agree that all rifles are different, and what works in one MAY not provide the same results in another. I have yet to find a rifle that I have owned that has not been significantly more accurate with neck sized fireformed brass.

:hmm:
Every day you wake up is a good day!

Bob.
User avatar
The Burpster
Rifleman
Rifleman
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Lincoln (ish)

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby The Burpster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:56 pm

Foxyfil wrote:Thanks
The problem was that I have had two rifles, a Rem and a Howa, and my pot of cases were mixed brass from both rifles. I know I should have separated them but I never really considered reloading up to now.
I have heard their may be a tool on the market that can correct the run out


If you have full length sized them then that shouldnt be an issue, what maybe an issue though is different makes of cases..... is their a mix of different cases in the batches or is all the brass from one maker and batch...?
Every day you wake up is a good day!

Bob.
User avatar
The Burpster
Rifleman
Rifleman
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Lincoln (ish)

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:58 pm

The Burpster wrote:Interesting article but it mentions nothing about how the rifle was mounted or shot, could there still be a human element involved in the resultant groups?

I agree that all rifles are different, and what works in one MAY not provide the same results in another. I have yet to find a rifle that I have owned that has not been significantly more accurate with neck sized fireformed brass.

:hmm:


It was shot from a pair of heavy bags in windless conditions and the test was repeatable.
Do you know that the majority of the top bench-rest shooters full length size every time? Many FT guys will "shoulder bump" every loading (same as full length but not touching the neck) and then neck size.

Anyway - I digress..... test in your own rifle with your own reloading components and take nothing written on a forum as gospel.

Kev.
Beer Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
Consul Master Hunter
 
Posts: 8352
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby The Burpster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:09 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:It was shot from a pair of heavy bags in windless conditions and the test was repeatable.
Do you know that the majority of the top bench-rest shooters full length size every time? Many FT guys will "shoulder bump" every loading (same as full length but not touching the neck) and then neck size.

Anyway - I digress..... test in your own rifle with your own reloading components and take nothing written on a forum as gospel.

Kev.


Kev, I agree 100% with your "test in your own rifle with your own reloading components and take nothing written on a forum as gospel"

Especially about load info...... :shock:

I was also aware that the top BR guys do that but they also spend very large amonts of money on barrels and some insist that its the first cut with a new boring tool and button. I believe they do the shoulder bump thing to reduce the risk of an vaguries in the neck cut interfering with the concentricty of the case in the chamber. That is for serious long distance accuracy though.....

A guy at my club uses exactly the same routine as me and regularly puts sub 2" groups at 600yds at Bisley with his Steyr 202 STR in 6.5x55. It is a sight to behold.

I genuinely hope my Tikka (sporter) will be anywhere near that.
Every day you wake up is a good day!

Bob.
User avatar
The Burpster
Rifleman
Rifleman
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Lincoln (ish)

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby zzrpilot » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:13 pm

so does your seating die have a guide to ensure the bullet is true before seated? If not then it might be an idea to change to one that does
Can you try someone elses dies to see if the same thing happens ? after all you could hae a duff die.

and to correct the problem there are things like this

http://www.midwayuk.com/epages/Midway_UK.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Midway_UK/Products/220200

But I think a quality die set might be cheaper...
Tika T3 Super Varmit .308
Winchester 94AE .357
Savage 93R BTV .22 WMR
Armi Sharps .54
2 x 1858 remmington .44
2 x Dragoon pistol .62
Blunderbuss 12ga(ish)
Brown bess
2 x Arquebus 20ga
Pole gun
Cannon
Armstrong 12Ga S/S
Hatsan MPA 12Ga semi
User avatar
zzrpilot
Trade Member
Trade Member
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 3:18 pm
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire

Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:18 pm

The Burpster wrote:
Foxyfil wrote:Thanks
The problem was that I have had two rifles, a Rem and a Howa, and my pot of cases were mixed brass from both rifles. I know I should have separated them but I never really considered reloading up to now.
I have heard their may be a tool on the market that can correct the run out


If you have full length sized them then that shouldnt be an issue, what maybe an issue though is different makes of cases..... is their a mix of different cases in the batches or is all the brass from one maker and batch...?


Theyre all Hornady cases. Im not sure about the batch numbers tho
Foxyfil
 

Next

Return to Reloading

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest