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Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:43 pm

Guys
Moving on in the saga of Foxyfils first reloading escapade.
I made up my first batch of bullets for testing today.
I made up 5 batches of 8, each batch with differing powder weights , all within the limits, as recommended by Sierra, the bullet of choice for this batch.
Every now and then, I rolled one or two of them on the flat bench, and it would appear that the bullets are crooked. I ran them thru the press again to no avail. Its not much, but its definitely visible
These are once fired Hornady cases, and brand new RCBS dies, Full Length Sizing and Seating.
Any advice on why the bullets aren't seating straight?
Has the sizing die bent the necks, or is the seating die faulty?
I'm in a dilemma now whether or not I can discharge the rounds through the rifle in case it damages the gun, or worse, me!! :(

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:18 pm

They'll be fine to fire, unless they're really, really crooked. If you want them perfectly concentric, you can get tools for causing that, but they're expensive and not really important unless you shoot F-class or something like that.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:20 pm

Do you reckon that it would adversely affect the groupings at 100yds?

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:23 pm

How did you set up your seating die?

Kev.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:31 pm

Hmmmmm I presume that the fired once brass was fired in your rifle....?

In which case do you mind me asking why you full sized them again...? If you are loading for accuracy then you really ought to just neck size when they are fireformed. This helps the case to sit snug in the chamber and allows the neck to align with the bore.

You only really need to full size if you are using an auto or semi auto rifle (unlikely in the UK)

Full sizing cases can cause some discrepancies in the cases depending on the amount of pressure used to form them. Your seating die may not be keeping the bullets in the center of the die because of play in it but most likely because the cases are 'floating' slightly as they go up into seating die allowing the bullets to flop to one side as they go into the neck.

No it wont harm your rifle but your accuracy will be all over the place. Bit like factory ammo.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:35 pm

The Burpster wrote:Hmmmmm I presume that the fired once brass was fired in your rifle....?

In which case do you mind me asking why you full sized them again...? If you are loading for accuracy then you really ought to just neck size when they are fireformed. This helps the case to sit snug in the chamber and allows the neck to align with the bore.

You only really need to full size if you are using an auto or semi auto rifle (unlikely in the UK)

Full sizing cases can cause some discrepancies in the cases depending on the amount of pressure used to form them. Your seating die may not be keeping the bullets in the center of the die because of play in it but most likely because the cases are 'floating' slightly as they go up into seating die allowing the bullets to flop to one side as they go into the neck.

No it wont harm your rifle but your accuracy will be all over the place. Bit like factory ammo.

Not necessarily - BrassPrep.html

Kev.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:42 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:How did you set up your seating die?

Kev.


I followed the instructions on the leaflet that came with it. I put a primed charged case in the shell holder and pulled the ram up. I screwed the die in until it touched the case and then backed it off a full turn, and tightened the nut.
That setting seated the bullet long, and I kept re seating it and measuring it, turning the screw on top, until it hit the requred OAL.
I tightened both the die locking nut again and the seating adjuster nut, and off I went.
The instructions never said anything about the positioning of the bullet prior to seating, but I kept it as straight as I could
I now appreciate that this is something called 'run out' I think, but the aim of all this is accuracy, and if I can't correct it, it all seems a bit pointless.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:46 pm

The Burpster wrote:Hmmmmm I presume that the fired once brass was fired in your rifle....?

In which case do you mind me asking why you full sized them again...? If you are loading for accuracy then you really ought to just neck size when they are fireformed. This helps the case to sit snug in the chamber and allows the neck to align with the bore.

You only really need to full size if you are using an auto or semi auto rifle (unlikely in the UK)

Full sizing cases can cause some discrepancies in the cases depending on the amount of pressure used to form them. Your seating die may not be keeping the bullets in the center of the die because of play in it but most likely because the cases are 'floating' slightly as they go up into seating die allowing the bullets to flop to one side as they go into the neck.

No it wont harm your rifle but your accuracy will be all over the place. Bit like factory ammo.


Thanks
The problem was that I have had two rifles, a Rem and a Howa, and my pot of cases were mixed brass from both rifles. I know I should have separated them but I never really considered reloading up to now.
I have heard their may be a tool on the market that can correct the run out

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:51 pm

It sounds like you are operating everything fine anyway.

Kev.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:54 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:Not necessarily - BrassPrep.html

Kev.


Interesting article but it mentions nothing about how the rifle was mounted or shot, could there still be a human element involved in the resultant groups?

I agree that all rifles are different, and what works in one MAY not provide the same results in another. I have yet to find a rifle that I have owned that has not been significantly more accurate with neck sized fireformed brass.

:hmm:

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:56 pm

Foxyfil wrote:Thanks
The problem was that I have had two rifles, a Rem and a Howa, and my pot of cases were mixed brass from both rifles. I know I should have separated them but I never really considered reloading up to now.
I have heard their may be a tool on the market that can correct the run out


If you have full length sized them then that shouldnt be an issue, what maybe an issue though is different makes of cases..... is their a mix of different cases in the batches or is all the brass from one maker and batch...?

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:58 pm

The Burpster wrote:Interesting article but it mentions nothing about how the rifle was mounted or shot, could there still be a human element involved in the resultant groups?

I agree that all rifles are different, and what works in one MAY not provide the same results in another. I have yet to find a rifle that I have owned that has not been significantly more accurate with neck sized fireformed brass.

:hmm:


It was shot from a pair of heavy bags in windless conditions and the test was repeatable.
Do you know that the majority of the top bench-rest shooters full length size every time? Many FT guys will "shoulder bump" every loading (same as full length but not touching the neck) and then neck size.

Anyway - I digress..... test in your own rifle with your own reloading components and take nothing written on a forum as gospel.

Kev.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:09 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:It was shot from a pair of heavy bags in windless conditions and the test was repeatable.
Do you know that the majority of the top bench-rest shooters full length size every time? Many FT guys will "shoulder bump" every loading (same as full length but not touching the neck) and then neck size.

Anyway - I digress..... test in your own rifle with your own reloading components and take nothing written on a forum as gospel.

Kev.


Kev, I agree 100% with your "test in your own rifle with your own reloading components and take nothing written on a forum as gospel"

Especially about load info...... :shock:

I was also aware that the top BR guys do that but they also spend very large amonts of money on barrels and some insist that its the first cut with a new boring tool and button. I believe they do the shoulder bump thing to reduce the risk of an vaguries in the neck cut interfering with the concentricty of the case in the chamber. That is for serious long distance accuracy though.....

A guy at my club uses exactly the same routine as me and regularly puts sub 2" groups at 600yds at Bisley with his Steyr 202 STR in 6.5x55. It is a sight to behold.

I genuinely hope my Tikka (sporter) will be anywhere near that.

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:13 pm

so does your seating die have a guide to ensure the bullet is true before seated? If not then it might be an idea to change to one that does
Can you try someone elses dies to see if the same thing happens ? after all you could hae a duff die.

and to correct the problem there are things like this

http://www.midwayuk.com/epages/Midway_UK.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Midway_UK/Products/220200

But I think a quality die set might be cheaper...

Re: Crooked bullets

Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:18 pm

The Burpster wrote:
Foxyfil wrote:Thanks
The problem was that I have had two rifles, a Rem and a Howa, and my pot of cases were mixed brass from both rifles. I know I should have separated them but I never really considered reloading up to now.
I have heard their may be a tool on the market that can correct the run out


If you have full length sized them then that shouldnt be an issue, what maybe an issue though is different makes of cases..... is their a mix of different cases in the batches or is all the brass from one maker and batch...?


Theyre all Hornady cases. Im not sure about the batch numbers tho
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