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Crooked bullets

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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby flintlok » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:30 pm

There are tools available to correct cartridge run out. Run out may be caused by non uniform cartridge neck thickness where the weak thin wall area will yield more as you seat the bullet causing misalignment or you equipment could just crooked (just kidding). It’s possible to even up the neck thickness by outside neck turning. Foster makes a nice outside neck tool or buy a run out gauge and one of the tools below to align the neck. Having said that it may be a waste of time for you to worry about this if you do close in shooting where the effect of misaligned cartridges would present a minimal issue.

http://www.trutool-equipment.com/

http://www.neconos.com/details3e
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby flintlok » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:34 am

Here another discussion concerning crooked cartridges (run out) :grin:

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rif ... n-out.html
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:46 am

flintlok wrote:There are tools available to correct cartridge run out.


I saw a bit on you tube where a fella simply had a set of pre drilled holes set in his wooden bench. He measured the run out on each round, and if it wasn't within the limits , he stuck it in the hole and leaned on it.. much the same principle as these tools.
I appreciate what you say about the range at which I shoot, but I'd still like to eliminate this as far as I can.
Would you recommend that I would but a tool to correct the misaligned cartridges, or buy a decent competition die? Obviously theres a financial implication here, as each is probably in excess of £130 after postage.
One other thing, is there something on the market that would correct the concentricity errors on the neck before the bullet is seated?
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:21 am

I don't like these "alignment tools" as when pushing against the bullet they change the level of contact pressure with the case neck. So they may fix the run-out issue, but leave you with variable neck tension which is very bad for accuracy.

What dies are you using now? Does your sizing die have a button that gets dragged through the neck? If so, is it set centrally?

Kev.
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Triffid » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:40 pm

Sorry to (slightly) hijack the thread, but there's talk of using a F/L sizer to 'Bump the shoulder' of a case back by a 'thou. I get the idea, but please could someone explain how to set up a F/L sizer die to achieve this.
Thanks
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby The Burpster » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:20 pm

IIRC he is using RCBS dies, but doesnt state which ones. They should be OK but they defo wont be like Forster or Redding micro seater dies.
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:33 pm

Triffid wrote:Sorry to (slightly) hijack the thread, but there's talk of using a F/L sizer to 'Bump the shoulder' of a case back by a 'thou. I get the idea, but please could someone explain how to set up a F/L sizer die to achieve this.
Thanks
Triffid

Headspace gauge set. I have these (well, mine are marked Stoney Point, before Hornady started branding them) and they are really easy to use.
To achieve the one thou bump, you would use the gauge to measure a fired case and then resize with the FL die screwed out a bit. Re-measure and screw the die in till you get your one thou bump.

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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:I don't like these "alignment tools" as when pushing against the bullet they change the level of contact pressure with the case neck. So they may fix the run-out issue, but leave you with variable neck tension which is very bad for accuracy.

What dies are you using now? Does your sizing die have a button that gets dragged through the neck? If so, is it set centrally?

Kev.


I know what you mean about manual alignment. It seems wrong in such a precision game.
But what do you think of this?
When I get a problem like this, I immediately get surfing, and last night after absorbing the advice, I came across an internet article written by a bloke who was having run out problems.
He was told by his mate to turn the bullet as it went into the die. He had tried it and it hadn't worked.
This morning, first thing, I made up another batch. When I seated the bullet, I got it as straight as I could to start with, then ran it into the die a few thou, then lowered it. I turned the bullet 90 degrees, and ran it in another few thou. I kept repeating this until the COAL was at the required figure. I guess I had to do it about 7 times. I then rolled them. Not a visible trace of run out was seen. Straight as a die (well, not mine) :shock: With the original lot, there was a massive wobble when rolled.
Anyway, I did it again this afternoon. Same routine. Again, no visible run out. :shock: :thup:
The dies I am using are the dies that came with the master supreme kit. I have to say they feel a little basic, particularly the bullet seating die. The depth seating screw feels very 'dry' and grindy if that makes sense, as tho it needs oiling.
What do you reckon?
Makes sense that to move the bullet head round would 'share out' the imperfection in the die. There probably still is run out, but its not all in one area.
Fil
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:59 pm

It looks like you have found the culprit - a crappy seating die.
Your turn it round fix sounds like it sorts it too :)

Time to save for a Redding competition die.... or alternatively a Lee "dead length bullet seating die" which you can pick up for next to nothing. In my testing it is incredibly good with almost no concentricity or length variation issues at all.

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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Foxyfil » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:59 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:Time to save for a Redding competition die.... or alternatively a Lee "dead length bullet seating die" which you can pick up for next to nothing. In my testing it is incredibly good with almost no concentricity or length variation issues at all.

Kev.


Yep looks like the way forward
Thanks for all your help Kev..and the rest of you who contributed :thup:
Regards
Fil
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Ackley » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:30 pm

Mmmmmm LEE dies "again"
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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Beer Hunter » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:58 pm

Ackley wrote:Mmmmmm LEE dies "again"

It says RCBS above ;)

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Re: Crooked bullets

Postby Ackley » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:47 pm

Beer Hunter wrote:
Ackley wrote:Mmmmmm LEE dies "again"

It says RCBS above ;)

Kev.


like I said "Mmmm LEE dies again" the only thing to use,or so iam told :lol: :razz:
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