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.243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

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.243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby firtrees » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:38 pm

I am experimenting with my .243 and 58 gr. VMAX bullets using magnum primers. My latest effort is Fed. brass, a 58 gr. Hornady VMAX bullet, 41.7 gr. IMR 4064 powder and a CCI 250 mag. primer. Does anybody have any thoughts about the magnum primer? What primer would you recommend if not the magnum?

Thanks.
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby flintlok » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:39 pm

Generally that's not a load the requires magnum primers. Typically magnum primers are use for slow burning powders in cases with large capacities. I checked my Hornady reloading manual and they use Federal 210 (standard large rifle) to develop their load data. Interestingly the don't list a load for IMR 4064. I also checked the powder manufacturer's load data on line and they use Winchester large rifle primers. Generally I tend to use whatever standard large rifle primer that available (CCI, Federal, or Winchester), I even have some commie Wolf primers kicking around. The rule of thumb with magnum primer is that they can boost a load as much as adding one additional grain of powder to your charge. I've used them in place of standard primers when I backed off a grain or two from the max loading. You are a couple of grains below the max as found in the online manufacturer's load data. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby hungryrob » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:16 pm

I used H110 (corrected, it was H414!!!, see below) and CCI primers with the same bullet and got good results...
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby firtrees » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:49 am

Thank you for both replies.
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby fizzbangwhallop » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:08 am

I use CCI LR Magnums with H414 and 70grn Noser Baltips in my .243.

Recommended to me to for H414 in order to get better ignition of the ball type powder..... although there wasn't much apparent difference in performance against Fed Match primers.


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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby firtrees » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:20 pm

I just noticed in some old notes that I trialed primers in 1995. Amazing what you discover when you bother to read things that you already knew and wrote down. In my .270, CCI 200 large rifle primers gave me a MOA group, Fed 215 magnum primers gave me a 1.875" group and CCI 250 magnum primers gave a 3.375" group. Guess which ones I have 900 primers left of? Murphy's Law.

I have two five round loads of .243 with 41.7 gr. of IMR 4064 ready to test with each of CCI 200 and Fed 210 large rifle primers. Once I shoot them I might have a better idea of where I'm going. Hopefully it'll be CCI 200 with the .243 so that I'll have the same preferred primer for both rifles. Does anybody know of magic potions that help keep Murphy at bay?
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby flintlok » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:44 pm

There shouldn't be all that much difference in performance between the manufacturers of large rifle primers. The federal government standardize the primer chemical composition years ago and that's what every manufacturer uses. The primer body may be different as well as the amount of primer material as in the case of magnum primers however the chemical composition remains the same. Some folks seem to find better performance given one brand of primer over other brands of primers but I've never noticed a difference. It's like saying one glass of water tastes better than the other. Pure water has no taste and whatever they are tasting is just chemical additives or contaminants.
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby hungryrob » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:18 pm

Have a look here:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2740&p=74351&hilit=243+versus+223#p74351

Load data with the H110 (see below)will follow in 5..
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby hungryrob » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:20 pm

H4141!!!! NOT H110, sorry!

49.5 grains, loaded with federal magnum primers.. Twas a hot load, beware! :)
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby flintlok » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:17 pm

hungryrob wrote:H4141!!!! NOT H110, sorry!

49.5 grains, loaded with federal magnum primers.. Twas a hot load, beware! :)


I thought it strange that you using a Magnum handgun powder to load 243 however I seen some strange things .....................
The last fellow that I know who did that lost three fingers and destroyed his Winchester Model 1894. Some fellow had placed handgun powder, I believe it was Bullseye, into a empty can of IMR 3031. The can was passed to another fellow who gave it to my friend because he didn't reload. My buddy used the IMR 3031 rifle load data to construct his ammo with the powder and the first shot went "blewey". After the gun blew up and before my buddy went to the hospital he went home and checked his powder scale. He just couldn't believe what had just happened. No matter, his loads were correct but it was the powder that was off.
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby gecko13 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:38 pm

For what it's worth I always used magnum primers (CCI) for all my handloads. They provided a much more consistent ignition, especially in a cold climate. I used them in loads for .243 and over the chronograph they gave a more consistent velocity.
I no longer handload since I moved to the UK but as soon as i get my FAC i plan on doing it again and will be using magnum primers.
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby firtrees » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:44 pm

flintlok wrote:
hungryrob wrote:H4141!!!! NOT H110, sorry!

49.5 grains, loaded with federal magnum primers.. Twas a hot load, beware! :)


I thought it strange that you using a Magnum handgun powder to load 243 however I seen some strange things .....................
The last fellow that I know who did that lost three fingers and destroyed his Winchester Model 1894. Some fellow had placed handgun powder, I believe it was Bullseye, into a empty can of IMR 3031. The can was passed to another fellow who gave it to my friend because he didn't reload. My buddy used the IMR 3031 rifle load data to construct his ammo with the powder and the first shot went "blewey". After the gun blew up and before my buddy went to the hospital he went home and checked his powder scale. He just couldn't believe what had just happened. No matter, his loads were correct but it was the powder that was off.


Ewe, mixing powders is evil stuff. Life is for learning. Fact is I already knew large rifle primers were best but (as noted above) the answer had slipped back into memory. That's one of the reasons we as a species keep periodically reinventing the wheel. I had slipped into the "magnum must be better" way of thinking. That was probably assisted by the fact that I have more of them than anything else. They worked well in my .300 WM. I sold the .300 last week so odds are I'll have no more use for them at all.

Your argument that all primers are chemically identical is interesting. There must be more to it than just mix, for instance you mention shape (presumably internal). There must be something to explain my test results, ranging from a 1" group using CCI 200's to 3.75" with CCI 250's. Stumbling along trying different things and keeping notes along the way (safety being paramount) is a fun part of the hobby.

Given that going to a magnum primer is said to increase mv by 100 fps, I wonder if using a magnum primer and reducing powder weight is practical? The first objection I see is inadvertently straying into the situation where light loads cause blow ups? Either way it is just a passing thought and doesn't strike me as being a good idea. There's a lot more to a good load than just mv.
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby flintlok » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:18 pm

firtrees wrote: iven that going to a magnum primer is said to increase mv by 100 fps, I wonder if using a magnum primer and reducing powder weight is practical? The first objection I see is inadvertently straying into the situation where light loads cause blow ups? Either way it is just a passing thought and doesn't strike me as being a good idea. There's a lot more to a good load than just mv.


Yeah, you should be able to use magnum primers within the loading data provided in the manual however it best to follow their load manual's/manufacturer's can load recommendation. The powder burn rates are important because a pressure wave bounces up and down the barrel longitudinally for breach end to muzzle and it travels at the speed of sound in steel somewhere between 4,500 m/s to 6,100 m/s. Powder burns proportion to pressure. It possible to stair case the pressure curve such that you can increase the burn rate and the pressure waves overlaps with a lighter load with increased surface area. This is a cool article and thread about shock wave theory in reloading applications.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12598&hilit=+sound+in+steel
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby firtrees » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:27 am

flintlok wrote:
firtrees wrote: iven that going to a magnum primer is said to increase mv by 100 fps, I wonder if using a magnum primer and reducing powder weight is practical? The first objection I see is inadvertently straying into the situation where light loads cause blow ups? Either way it is just a passing thought and doesn't strike me as being a good idea. There's a lot more to a good load than just mv.


Yeah, you should be able to use magnum primers within the loading data provided in the manual however it best to follow their load manual's/manufacturer's can load recommendation. The powder burn rates are important because a pressure wave bounces up and down the barrel longitudinally for breach end to muzzle and it travels at the speed of sound in steel somewhere between 4,500 m/s to 6,100 m/s. Powder burns proportion to pressure. It possible to stair case the pressure curve such that you can increase the burn rate and the pressure waves overlaps with a lighter load with increased surface area. This is a cool article and thread about shock wave theory in reloading applications.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12598&hilit=+sound+in+steel


Very interesting. Thank you. I could follow the logic to some degree but not the graphs or engineering. What is "OCW"?
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Re: .243 Handloads & Magnum Primers

Postby flintlok » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:24 pm

firtrees wrote: Very interesting. Thank you. I could follow the logic to some degree but not the graphs or engineering. What is "OCW"?


OCW = Optimal Charge Weight

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/
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