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Many shotgun questions

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Many shotgun questions

Postby BigJohnx13 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:22 pm

Please advise/school me on the following,

1. If two shotguns same make and model, have different barrel lengths eg. 24” and 28” both with a full choke what will the difference be in shooting pattern, effective distance, recoil and general handling?
2. I have asked the following question on other forums but no one can give me an answer so far. I was told that a AAA (70mm) round should only be fired in a 3“ chamber. Can this AAA round be fired safely in a 2.3/4” chamber in volumes and not once or twice due to chamber length and forcing cone. a AAA round measured about 73mm in the open position depending on crimped type which makes it a bit long for 2.3/4” chambers, is this assumption correct?
3. Can 70mm Slug round be fired from this 2.3/4” chamber also?
4. Can 70mm Slug round be fired from a full choke without damaging the choke or should the shotgun have another choke?
5. How do I check if the barrels is Nitroproof?

Thanks
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby flintlok » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:09 pm

I can answer the slug question. Slugs guns typically have the cylinder or improved cylinder bores. My Bernelli M1 Super 90 is fitted with a slug barrel cylinder that has a bore diameter of 0.720 ( viewtopic.php?f=66&t=16638 ). It better matches the slug load diameter and will group tight (4 or 5 inches or so for a slug gun) out to 50 yards. The looser barrels group accordingly. Rifled slug have ribs about their circumference that will swage down at they travel through the choke. This feature allows you to fire slugs through a full choke without damaging the bore however the accuracy will be in the crapper as it deforms the slug. In close, it will get you by in a pinch. I live New England in the USA. It's heavily forested where 50 yards is a long shot. Most lower New England states allow only shotgun for deer hunting. Everyone uses a dedicated slug gun.
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby flintlok » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:26 pm

Now I'm confused. The distance 70 mm converts to 2 3/4 inches. That's a 2 3/4 chamber shell. A three inch chamber shell is 3 inches long (76 mm or so). There is a very noticeable difference between the lengths and recoil. The barrel will have the allowable shell length stamped on it. Chambers are cut to allow for the shell to open to full length on firing. If the barrel is stamped 2 3/4 then it's fine for that length shell. In the US, we get crazy and make 3 1/2 shell slug shells. I feel such rounds are for the truly insane. At one time you could find slug load that traveled at 1200 fps for a 2 3/4's shell. They selling 2 3/4 slug shell that have a muzzle velocity of 1700 fps now. They kick like a mule and have a relatively flat trajectory out to 125 yards. The recoil just about rattles the teeth from my head.

Note that modern shotguns are built to handle this punishment. Not so wit the older guns. I have early 20th Century vintage shotguns and I don't beat them up with such loads.
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby Buffy Vampire Slayer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:24 am

i use sellier & bellot rifled slugs in my 1187 and use a rifled choke tube which really tightens up the groups.
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby BigJohnx13 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:06 pm

flintlok wrote:Now I'm confused. The distance 70 mm converts to 2 3/4 inches. Chambers are cut to allow for the shell to open to full length on firing.


Thanks for answering. I have measured the rounds (in mm and just convert to inches) in close and open position as follows. All rounds are marked 70 or 7 but on the photo you will see the length difference
AAA 63mm (2.52") closed- Open position 73mm –markings- AAA 70/35 (plastic casing)
Slugs 63mm (2.52") closed- Open position 73mm- markings- 70mm (plastic casing)
No 7 58mm (2.35") closed- Open position 68mm- markings- 7-70-7 (paper casing)
No 3 58mm (2.35") closed- Open position 68mm- markings- 70/35 no3 (plastic casing)
All rounds are crimped at the top like a pizza )
Chamber length 2.3/4" = 68.7 mm
Chamber length 3" = 75 mm

What I was told is that the AAA round because of the 73mm length in open position need a 3" chamber. This is why Im asking the forum for advice. Im currently shooting a 3" winchester defender for sport and want to purchase a 2.3/4" Franchi luigi spa semi auto

shotgun shells (1).jpg
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby flintlok » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:30 pm

Okay, now I understand.

I opened a box of Federal 12 gauge three inch magnum 00 buck shells. Their unfired length is 2 1/2 inches long which translates into a hair under 63 mm by my ruler. The shell is clearly marked 3 inch.

I opened another box of 12 gauge 2 and 3/4 inch slug shells. Their unfired length is 2 and 5/16 inch long which translates into a bit under 60 mm.

The 63 mm shells that you have are indeed for a 3 inch chambered gun.
The 58 mm shells that you have are for a 2 3/4 chambered gun.

The AAA round because of the 73 mm length in open position does need a 3" chamber. You will definitely have forcing cone and pressure issues if you fire that shell in the shorter chamber length.

In regard to barrel length vs pattern. The is no difference in patterning in the question that you pose. See the attached Youtube clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twws0LnxZJQ

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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby BigJohnx13 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:28 am

flintlok wrote: The 63 mm shells that you have are indeed for a 3 inch chambered gun.
The 58 mm shells that you have are for a 2 3/4 chambered gun.


This is where the confusion sets in, Almost all of the gunshops (salesman, not gunsmith) say I can shoot the 63mm AAA in the 2.3/4" chamber. One gunsmith also stated is it OK. When I bought my first shotgun the salesman give the same advice as you . Now that I want to purchase anther shotgun with a smaller chamber I get so much conflicting info I feel like a chameleon on a rainbow
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby flintlok » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:29 am

Yeah, in the US everything is clearly marked on the box if shells as to what the clambering is as it is on the shotgun. I get lost once the metric units kick in.
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby Sidebyside » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:10 pm

If you have 3" chambers you can use any shorter length cartridge in it of the same guage , shot size should not affect the chokes. you can use 2" , 2 1/2" , 2 3/4" and 3" shells in a 3" chambered gun of the same guage.

https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/shooti ... explained/
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby flintlok » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:13 pm

Sidebyside wrote:If you have 3" chambers you can use any shorter length cartridge in it of the same guage , shot size should not affect the chokes. you can use 2" , 2 1/2" , 2 3/4" and 3" shells in a 3" chambered gun of the same guage.

https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/shooti ... explained/



Now you chime in late comer to the party. :roll: :roll: :roll:
The faster I go, the older I get.

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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby Sidebyside » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:53 pm

flintlok wrote:
Sidebyside wrote:If you have 3" chambers you can use any shorter length cartridge in it of the same guage , shot size should not affect the chokes. you can use 2" , 2 1/2" , 2 3/4" and 3" shells in a 3" chambered gun of the same guage.

https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/shooti ... explained/



Now you chime in late comer to the party. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Only because you seemed to be struggling :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby Buffy Vampire Slayer » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:12 am

:Facepalm:
Sidebyside wrote:
flintlok wrote:
Sidebyside wrote:If you have 3" chambers you can use any shorter length cartridge in it of the same guage , shot size should not affect the chokes. you can use 2" , 2 1/2" , 2 3/4" and 3" shells in a 3" chambered gun of the same guage.

https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/shooti ... explained/



Now you chime in late comer to the party. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Only because you seemed to be struggling :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:


You know what the yanks are like with the metric system.
We'll,counting in general really.
MY BABIES
HOWA 1500 .308 BOYDS THUMBHOLE/PREDATOR MOD
BROWNING A-BOLT ECLIPSE .22-250/A-TEC MAXIM MOD
WEIHRAUCH HW60 HMR/ PREDATOR MOD
.22 FAC MK2 RAPID/AWT MOD
BROWNING 525 O&U 12g
ZOLI COLUMBUS GOLD 0&U 12g
REMINGTON 1187 FAC SEMI AUTO 12g
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Re: Many shotgun questions

Postby flintlok » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:25 pm

Buffy Vampire Slayer wrote::Facepalm:
You know what the yanks are like with the metric system.
We'll,counting in general really.


Yeah, leave it to the Brits to change the rules on we understand the game. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
The faster I go, the older I get.

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