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Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

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Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby Pondlife » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:31 pm

I've got an elderly friend who's a shotgun owner. He doesn't have any children and, as far as I know, there's noone else with a SGC to look after the guns if he becomes incapacitated.

I'm wondering what would happen to the shotguns if something were to happen to him. I'd like his wife to benefit from their value, but I worry that they might be seized if there's noone with a SGC in control of them.

It's not the sort of thing that I want to bring up with him and his wife, but he's getting a bit frail and I wonder what typically happens in these situations. Is there any grace period to allow relatives and friends to get an SGC to cover the guns? Should I, or someone else be thinking about getting a SGC now? Can you get a certificate if you don't have any guns?

I want to avoid the situation where the guns get seized and destroyed or sold below value because there's noone able to act as custodian. This is in Kent if there's differences between forces.
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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby Buffy Vampire Slayer » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:05 am

I believe it's possible to apply for a "temporary" SGC to allow someone time to dispose of the guns.
failing that a local RFD could re-home for a fee :idea:
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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby Deallad » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:27 pm

You can apply to the police for a certificate to cover time for disposal. Not sure how long you get but think its in the order of 2 weeks.

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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby Pondlife » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:13 pm

Thanks all. I wasn't aware that it's possible to get a temporary SGC to cover this sort of thing. That sounds like exactly what I'd need.
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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby bedwards1966 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:51 pm

You can get a certificate without actually having any guns, though you'd need to have a cabinet in place and it would cost money.

The best way is normally to apply for a temporary certificate when the time comes which then gives time to get them sold. However, it has been known for some forces to take a long time to actually do this, I don't know what the situation is with Kent.
You can get a Registered Firearms Dealer to come and collect them, but being a business it will cost. Not only would you expect to pay their time in actually coming to collect them, but when they're holding them and you can't touch them you're stuck with accepting their price to buy them. If you were to have control you would be able to shop around or sell privately.


Do be aware that the police have been known to just turn up and seize guns, sometimes only hours after the death of the person. It may not be a standard procedure but it certainly does happen. They don't show much consideration for those who've just lost someone.
If they do seize the guns they can't just destroy them without authorisation, however you would need a certificate or a dealer to collect them. Aside from the hassle the police have a history of not treating guns with a great deal of care, and it is very possible that by the time arrangements have been made to collect them they won't be in a salable condition.
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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby Buffy Vampire Slayer » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:58 am

bedwards1966 wrote:You can get a certificate without actually having any guns, though you'd need to have a cabinet in place and it would cost money.

The best way is normally to apply for a temporary certificate when the time comes which then gives time to get them sold. However, it has been known for some forces to take a long time to actually do this, I don't know what the situation is with Kent.
You can get a Registered Firearms Dealer to come and collect them, but being a business it will cost. Not only would you expect to pay their time in actually coming to collect them, but when they're holding them and you can't touch them you're stuck with accepting their price to buy them. If you were to have control you would be able to shop around or sell privately.


Do be aware that the police have been known to just turn up and seize guns, sometimes only hours after the death of the person. It may not be a standard procedure but it certainly does happen. They don't show much consideration for those who've just lost someone.
If they do seize the guns they can't just destroy them without authorisation, however you would need a certificate or a dealer to collect them. Aside from the hassle the police have a history of not treating guns with a great deal of care, and it is very possible that by the time arrangements have been made to collect them they won't be in a salable condition.


no you don`t.
my son has his own ticket,his mother hates guns and won`t allow them in the house (one of the reasons we`re not together) and there is no gun safe at that property.
we`ve been divorced 7 years and he`s had his ticket for 5 years in December so,no it`s not because he lived with me when he got it :!:
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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby Fenrir » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:30 am

Buffy Vampire Slayer wrote:
bedwards1966 wrote:You can get a certificate without actually having any guns, though you'd need to have a cabinet in place and it would cost money.

The best way is normally to apply for a temporary certificate when the time comes which then gives time to get them sold. However, it has been known for some forces to take a long time to actually do this, I don't know what the situation is with Kent.
You can get a Registered Firearms Dealer to come and collect them, but being a business it will cost. Not only would you expect to pay their time in actually coming to collect them, but when they're holding them and you can't touch them you're stuck with accepting their price to buy them. If you were to have control you would be able to shop around or sell privately.


Do be aware that the police have been known to just turn up and seize guns, sometimes only hours after the death of the person. It may not be a standard procedure but it certainly does happen. They don't show much consideration for those who've just lost someone.
If they do seize the guns they can't just destroy them without authorisation, however you would need a certificate or a dealer to collect them. Aside from the hassle the police have a history of not treating guns with a great deal of care, and it is very possible that by the time arrangements have been made to collect them they won't be in a salable condition.


no you don`t.
my son has his own ticket,his mother hates guns and won`t allow them in the house (one of the reasons we`re not together) and there is no gun safe at that property.
we`ve been divorced 7 years and he`s had his ticket for 5 years in December so,no it`s not because he lived with me when he got it :!:

Similar here, my brother has an SGC and a shotgun but no cabinet, he has had the gun and ticket for probably thirty years or more as well.
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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby bedwards1966 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:34 pm

Quite rare to get one. It is possible to get a certificate to have a shotgun that is secured by just a wall clamp, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but now it mainly seems reserved for special people. Police officers, friends of police officers etc...
They seem to be rather keen on having cabinets in place, and are often insisting they meet certain BS requirements as well. They don't always take much notice of the law, so be aware that unless you're prepared for a battle a cabinet is something to expect to have to buy.
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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby Deallad » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:40 pm

You do not need a safe to hold a shotgun cert.

Example.

I have a shotgun and cabinet and shoot regular, friend also has a shotgun cert no cabinet, UNLIKE a firearm certificate you can borrow a shotgun. (72hour rule)

So friend with shotgun cert can borrow my shotgun take it out shooting for the day and return it to me, he does not need a cabinet as he is not going to store a gun at his property, however he needs a certificate to be in possession of a shotgun.

Another example could be a husband and wife, both have guns stored in one cabinet

The same person COULD BUY A SHOTGUN even though he has no cabinet, it's on HIS certificate and also on MINE so that I can store it for him.

Plus with a shotgun there is the 72 hour rule,

Example

Friend with no cabinet buys shotgun, gives it to me for 72 hours, then takes shotgun away uses it for a day and returns it to me for another 72 hours, then repeats the process, there is no limit on the period he has to have it before loaning it to me again for another 72 hours This might not be the way the law intended but not illegal.

I am the FAC holder for the club, in the event I was unable to take the club guns to the range another member has the guns on his certificate as a BORROW CLAUSE in order that they can be used.

So with the examples above, you can hold a shotgun certificate and not have a cabinet

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Re: Elderly shotgun owner: implications of incapacity

Postby HDAV » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:35 pm

bedwards1966 wrote:You can get a certificate without actually having any guns, though you'd need to have a cabinet in place and it would cost money.

Don't need a cabinet to get a cert. All you need is for your friend to put instructions in his will as to what he wants done with his guns (sold as part of his estate etc) and a note on the cabinet to that effect and the number of a FEO or local RFD who can store/dispose of as required, or the instructions for a Section 7 cert. The police have no right to seize guns in such circumstances and the relevant pages from the guidance are helpful. As they can get silly...
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